Birth of Henry Carney circa 1920

[GaryTJ]

Hi,

I would be grateful of some help or advice in exhausting the search for my great uncles birth please.

My great uncle Henry Carney was born circa 1919/1920 to Henry Carney and Margaret Carney (nee Ogilby).

He had a brother called Samuel born 1921, sister Agnes born 1923, twin brothers James and John born 1926 and a sister Mary Ann born 1934.  I know all the the birth dates and deaths of his brothers and sisters.

Henry's parent married 12th April 1920 in St Anne's, Belfast. 

Henry born 1919/1920, estimated from his marriage to Catherine Fitzpatrick in 1944, died in 1948 aged 28.  He was assaulted at the Rinkha Dance Hall and died from his injuries. He left a wife and child of 4 years old.  I have all the information about his death and marriage.

I just can't find his birth!

I have had the GRONI do a 5 year search either side of 01/06/1920 for Henry Carney without success. I have also searched Irish Genealogy without success.

Henry's father was Scottish so I have tried Scotlands People just in case they where in Scotland at the time but I haven't been successful there either.  Thats not to say it isnt there as I might have searched incorrectly or maybe didn't think of something like a filter or name cut.

I have done an FOI request with PRONI on Henry's address, 38 Walton Street in the 1939 Register to see if he was there that day and if his D.O.B is recorded. However that was months ago, I haven't heard anything back and I don't even know if the request went through properly!

Have I exhausted everything? I understand his birth may not have been registered especially given how close his birth might be to his parents marriage and therefore his mother was likely pregnant at the time of their marriage!

Any help, look ups, and advice would be gladly recieved!  I feel this is a gaping hole on my tree and it truly feels like there is literally something missing. 

Thank you

Gary

[aghadowey]

If his parents weren't married at the time of his birth (and informant gave true details) then father won't be on birth certificate unless he attended registration with chil'r mother. Have you searched under her maiden name?

[GaryTJ]

If his parents weren't married at the time of his birth (and informant gave true details) then father won't be on birth certificate unless he attended registration with chil'r mother. Have you searched under her maiden name?

Hi aghadowey
Thanks for the reply
Yes. I have tried searching using his mums maiden name Ogilby. No luck. :-(

[Elwyn Soutter]

I have done an FOI request with PRONI on Henry's address, 38 Walton Street in the 1939 Register to see if he was there that day and if his D.O.B is recorded. However that was months ago, I haven't heard anything back and I don't even know if the request went through properly!

PRONI staff were working from home from March till it re-opened in August, which meant that a lot of routine research requests were not dealt with (because they required access to paper records in the building and it was closed).  So I think they have a significant backlog at present which may take some months to clear.

[gaffy]

There was a John 'Kerney' born in hospital at Belfast on 14 June 1920 to Henry 'Kerney' and Margaret 'Oglivie' of 162 Cupar Street:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01210/1503301.pdf

Is this possibly the same couple as your Henry and Margaret Carney? If so, note that I haven't yet found a death for that son John between 1920 and 1926 (I've been looking for one because you mentioned that another son John born in 1926). Could it be that the John born in 1920 was baptised or otherwise called Henry?

Added: 162 Cupar Street is the address shown in military documents for Henry Carney who served in WW1 in the Royal Fusiliers, Reg. No. 66095. The Northern Whig of 5 January 1918 reported that 'Mrs. Mary Carney, 38, Walton Street, Belfast, has been notified that her son, Private Henry Carney, Royal Fusliers, has been wounded.' So I'm now satisfied that the 1920 birth above is indeed the right folk.
 

[GaryTJ]

Hey Gaffy,

Oh wow! Thank you very much.

This definitely has to be the right people. Henry and Margaret are my great-grandparents. James was my granda.  James my granda had a twin called John who died.  I have a death date of 27/01/1927. He was born 15 mins after my grandfather on the 22/09/1926.

What I now dont understand is why Henry was registered as John, which means there were 2 siblings called John (although the later John, my grandas twin died less than a year after birth).

I know about Henry's army record and his pension ledger from the army was addressed to 162 Cupar Street, I just didnt know the significance of that address.  I know at the time from Street Directories that a Thomas McQuitty (unknown surname to me) lived there but I couldnt square the circle.

But wow! Thank you for that! I cant believe the spelling mistakes of Carney and Ogilby!

Thank you Gaffy!

[aghadowey]

What I now dont understand is why Henry was registered as John, which means there were 2 siblings called John (although the later John, my grandas twin died less than a year after birth).

It could just be that the parents changed their mind about the first John's Christian name and started using another and then a few years later did decide to use (and keep) the name John for the younger child. You might possibly find a baptism for the first child under the 'new' name rather than John.