Can anyone suggest which John Jones this might be?

[Girl Guide]

Sent you a pm Tabbicat re 1939.

[Tabbicat26]

I have now looked into the children of John and Ellen and can add a little to Annette's information that it looks like John and Ellen had 3 children:  Ivy Ellen born 26/2/1916 Bethnal Green, a son b.1918 and a daughter 1922, both in Hackney.

The GRO Indexes and free BMD have the following children, surname Jones, mmn Arno:

Ivy Ellen 1916/MAR   Bethnal Green.   Alfred John 1918/JUN   Hackney   Doris 1922/2   Hackney

MJ told me that she only knew of two children of the Jones /Arno marriage, a daughter and a son who had died young from TB.  I have found an Alfred John Jones b 1918 dying 1919/MAR in Shoreditch and wonder if this was the son.

[jonw65]

There is a burial at Tower Hamlets Cemetery, 28 March 1919
Alfred John Jones, abode 40 Ely Place Hoxton, age 14 months.

Edward Jones and Julia Jones are at 40 Ely Place Hoxton on the 1918 electoral register.

We don't of course look at family trees on ancestry, but one says that AJ died in Dartford in 1932 age 14. It sounds plausible as there were some institutions in that area.

But Mrs Jones - Ellen Emily - could be alive in 1960/1. Ellen E Jones is at 69 Fulford Grove, Watford, with Ivy E Pettitt and Joseph Pettitt. Ivy looks like being John's daughter.

[Tabbicat26]

Thank you JonW, I think we can safely rule out Alfred as being the child of Alfred and Ellen.

I'd already come across Ivy E Pettitt nee Jones and concluded that this was John and Emily's daughter, in 1939 she was at 43 Cadogan Terrace, Victoria Park, Hackney with Charles Pettitt born 1878, so presumably father-in-law.

I will have a look into the AJ who died in Dartford, the age of 14 in 1932 is certainly correct for a child born 1918 and Dartford is very plausible as John and Ellen were in Barking and Dagenham in 1939.  A former colleague lives in Northfleet and I'll e/mail him as he's a mine of useful information about the area.

MJ says the daughter did visit John Jones once, in Rochford, but they couldn't recall her name so it's worth a try to see if the name Ivy triggers any memory.

Thank you so much for your interest and this help.   Tabbicat

[Tabbicat26]

Please can anyone explain? The death of Alfred J Jones 14 years is shown on Free BMD as 1932/SEP Dartford but, despite trying all sorts of combinations of names, ages and dates I cannot find a similar entry on the GRO Index

[Girl Guide]

These are all the names that appear on freebmd for that death

Deaths Sep 1932   
Hand    William    64    Dartford    2a   698   
Harris    Emmanuel    54    Dartford    2a   698    
Hunt    Charles A    0    Dartford    2a   698    
Jones    Alfred J    14    Dartford    2a   698    
Rolfe    Naomi    76    Dartford    2a   698

Not one of the above names comes up on the GRO website.  One has to assume that for some reason they have missed putting them on.

You can report a problem to the GRO although there is no guarantee that they will decide something is wrong.  That's five deaths that are not there so hopefully the GRO would address that problem.

Go on to the GRO website and enter the name, which for you is JONES, indicate Male, then the quarter which was SQ and then add the volume (2a) and the page number (698) in all the relevant boxes. Click the Search button.

At the very bottom is the Results section and then it says:-

No Matching Results Found

Noticed a problem with a record in the GRO Indexes?
You can report it to GRO and help us improve the quality of information available.

Click on the report it to GRO and wait for them to respond.
 
 

[Tabbicat26]

Thanks Girl Guide, I'll follow your instructions after I've fed the Tabbicat and had my lunch.  The Jones family certainly do leave a trail of confusion!

[jonw65]

John and Ellen were in Barking and Dagenham in 1939. 

Hi
Yes, they were, but what is interesting is that they seem to be on the electoral registers in Hackney right up to 1939, at number 74 Rendlesham Road.
1939 has
Jones, Ellen Emily
Jones, Ivy Ellen
Jones, John
Also listed are George and Vera Leslie and Blanche Hilda and Stanley Joseph Morgan.

Earlier in the decade Alfred Jones and Eliza Jones are listed next door at 72 Rendlesham Road (John's parents?)

Trying to get to the bottom of the Alfred J Jones death in Dartford in 1932, and why a couple of trees say this is John and Ellen's son.
The most obvious institution down there for someone of his age would be Darenth.
Looking at Hackney records...
Hackney Union. Register of Children, MAB Schools and Homes (1915-30)
There is an Alfred John Jones in the index, but no register number. Annoying! Not sure whether Darenth is included in this.
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3JM-TN3J

Looking at Hackney's annual returns of lunatics
For 1929
Short lists for Darenth include a ten year old John Alfred Jones
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3JM-8J4

1930 (residing there on midnight of the 1st January 1930)
JA at Darenth is 11
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3JM-8DR?i=135

Don't think there are any later ones.
All very sad. Is John Alfred our Alfred John Jones, and is he the chap who died 1932?

[Tabbicat26]

Thank you for going to all this trouble Jonw.  The easy answer is yes, my understanding is that John Jones' parents were Alfred, a plumber and Eliza, I've not looked for their marriage yet.  Who the other people living with John and Ellen were I have no idea.

With regard to Alfred John, I guess that his names derive from his father John and John's father Alfred, which does suggest a relationship.  I see at the top of the register page where Alfred J's name appear it says it is the Hackney Register of children MABschools and homes, would this also include hospitals as surely that's where a TB patient should be?  I've had considerable success with hospital records from Bodmin Asylum and wonder if the one where Alfred J was would be just as forthcoming, always assuming we could discover in which institution he died.