DNA test to find unknown GGGrandad

[guest189040]

It is a Game of probabilities.

Start up DNA Painter and go to Tools.

The enter the DNA Matches cM value and look at the resulting chart.

It shows the Relationship Proabilities which in turn can point in the direction to concentrate your actions, if this turns out a red herring go to the next Probability level.

This may not make sense but give it a try and study the Results and you should see the light.

[ladyk]

My GG grandad was “unknown “ and I was wondering if there’s any way to use my dna test to try and find that branch of the family. Does anyone have any tips please?

Hi Caitie - I had a mystery gg-grandfather too. Maybe my story will help you, or at least encourage you to keep searching!

My gg-grandmother gave birth to g-grandfather in a poorhouse in Scotland. She was unmarried and no father was listed. She already had a one-yr-old son at the time of 2nd child's birth in the poorhouse. I tried to find a trend using autosomal results from my Dad (he's the descendant), but it was too big a task, I could quickly see that it could take years to sift through and identify a common surname among the autosomal matches.

So, I had Dad take a Y-dna test for me. As you know, these results gave me only dna matches from his paternal line, and it was his father's grandfather that I was searching for. Everyone told me (including on this forum) that I wouldn't be able to identify the individual man who fathered my g-grandfather using dna. I was determined, however, so I pressed on.

When I got Dad's y-dna test results from FamilyTreeDna, there were, if I remember right, 36 matches and I think it was 13 of them that had the surname McLaughlin or similar spelling. When I contacted these matches to ask about their paternal lines and checked the trees that were available on FTDNA and some of them were also on Ancestry, I found that all of their McLaughlins were from Northern Ireland and most were from Londonderry Cty. So I knew I probably had a gg-grandfather named McLaughlin or close to it and who came from Londonderry or at least from the area of Ireland now known as Northern Ireland.

From there, I went back to Ancestry, where Dad's autosomal dna results are. I plugged in the surname McLaughlin and started looking closely at the trees of the matches that came up who had that name in their tree. I made a list of male line individuals, alphabetically by first name and then by date of birth if there was more than one McLaughlin with the same first name. I was looking for more than one match who had the same individual McLaughlin on their tree. I also contacted many matches from FTDNA and Ancestry for more info on their McLaughlin lines.

After several months of this, I had three of my Dad's dna matches who had the same Daniel McLaughlin in their tree, and he was of an age to have fathered my g-grandfather. Was this a coincidence? I started going through all available documents on Daniel, to see if he'd emigrated to Scotland at any point or just gone there to work. He did, in fact, work for about a year in Scotland, and one of his children was born while he was there. But that was several yrs prior to my g-grandfather's birth, and he had other children born in Ireland at the same time as g-grandfather's birth. From what I could tell,  he wasn't in Scotland at the crucial time, but I still had the dna matches, and I even found a few more of Dad's matches also descended from Daniel as time went on. (I now have 15 in total)

Then a census abstract record appeared on Ancestry that hadn't been there before. It had Daniel, same birth year, same town as his other records, and his parents and a list of siblings, which I'd not had before. Two were brothers, Dominick and James. From what I could tell, James, who was a blacksmith, remained in Ireland all his life and raised his family there. So I focused on Dominick.

I found his baptismal record on RootsIreland, so I knew his DOB. I searched the area of Scotland where my g-grandfather was born and FINALLY I found him in the census, which happened to have been taken in the exact month my g-grandfather would have been conceived. He was living about a half mile away from my gg-grandmother's last known address! BINGO!

Turned out that Dominick married in Scotland 4 mos after my g-grandfather was conceived. He and his wife had 2 daughters, both of whom died young and didn't have any children. That's why my McLaughlin matches were coming up only to Daniel, his brother's descendants. My theory is that my gg-grandmother was probably making some money in the streets to support her baby and got pregnant a second time. I doubt if Dominick ever knew he had a son, and my gg-grandmother probably didn't even know who her son's father was. But I do! DNA is a wonderful thing.

So, don't give up! This process took place over 2.5 years, and I'm still getting new matches and corroborating clues that support my conclusion. It is possible! As others here have said, you need determination, investment of a lot of time, and a bit of luck. You'll get there.

Kat

[Romilly]

I too thought that DNA testing would help me to work out who my paternal grandfather was, and find his parents.

To this end, I tested, also my late Mother, my sister, daughter, and three paternal 1st cousins and 2 maternal 1st cousins.

This has enabled me to sort many of my matches into paternal/maternal sides; however, it hasn’t led me to the breakthrough I was hoping for...

My Grandfather says, on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for Swansea, that he was William James Wilson, born Manchester 1860. The common link with most of my paternal DNA matches is links to Manchester. I’ve re-worked the Tree of my highest paternal DNA match, but found nothing conclusive...

A name change seems the most likely explanation, but how on earth do you find this? On his marriage certificate, when he married my grandmother Margaret Rees in Swansea in June 1893, he says his father was‘William Wilson, (deceased) Occupation: Mason’. I’ve never been able to find him, and am unable to find my Grandfather anywhere before his marriage in 1893.

DNA has shown that the Irish, Scottish and Ashkenazi Jewish (9%) DNA that I have came from my paternal side. Manchester had one of the earliest Jewish settlements in the early 19th Century, and that percentage would indicate one G/G Grandparent, I think?

But how on earth do I proceed? I’ve tried most of the things that people on here have suggested, but have got nowhere...

Romilly 

[ladyk]

Hi Romilly - If this is your paternal grandfather, does he have any living male children or grandchildren? I'd recommend doing the y-dna test on a male descendant as I did (story above). It can really help to narrow down and identify possible "real" surnames, if his name was indeed changed. My gr-grandfather made up a fictitious name for his father on his marriage record (he put his maternal grandfather's name), and it was only after a long time of searching for this non-existent man that I discovered he was born out of wedlock with no father named. At that point I got my Dad to take the y-dna test and the rest is history! I found the individual I was looking for.

Kat

[Romilly]

Hi Kat,

All of the older generations are long dead... (My Father was 30 years older than my Mother, and died when I was 5).

My male paternal 1st Cousin tested with Ancestry for me, but won’t have a further test unfortunately. I only have viewing access to his test, and as he has advanced Parkinson’s, the possibilities of uploading anywhere, just aren’t possible:-(

Romilly.

[ladyk]

Are you able to search your cousin's matches?

If so, then I would pull up his list of matches and scan through the list. A lot of people have usernames, but many use they're own names, so see if you can spot 3 or 4 of his matches that have the same surname. Say you find 4 Smiths and 6 Jones on his matches list. Use the search feature on his matches list, and put Smith in the SURNAME IN MATCHES' TREES box.

Once you get that list, click on one with a public tree, the click on EXPAND TREE on upper right, then VIEW FULL TREE on upper left. Search for male Smiths, either by glancing through the tree or putting Smith in the tree search box. Start a list of all the male Smiths you find, alphabetical by first name, with their date of birth. If you find 2 David Smiths, put them in order of DOB. Do the same with the other matches who have Smiths in their trees so that you develop a long list of names of Smith men. Do the same with Jones.

Eventually, you may find the same Smith individual in 2 or more trees. Make a note of the usernames of these 2 or more matches and continue on with this process. If enough people from the family you're looking for have tested, eventually you'll find some individuals that appear on several of your matches' trees. Are they from the right geographical area? If so, you have something to go on.

This surname matching process is much slower with autosomal dna than it would be if you could get the y-dna, but if could still work. Don't give up, new data is being added to Ancestry every day and more and more people are testing! It took me 2 and a half yrs to find my mystery man. It can be done, just stick to it!

Kat

[Romilly]

Yes, - thanks Kat, for the further suggestions.

Yes, I can see all of the matches for all of the tests that I’m concerned with.

In my case, the ‘Smiths and Jones’s’ are the Butler and Kean Families. I’ve been all through all 9 test results cross referencing, and it’s pretty conclusive that all of my paternal family match to them, and that the common link is Manchester.

It’s always possible that my Grandfather was an NPE, but if that were the case, then I ought to be able to find his paper records...?

I’m just hoping that some more people on that side will test, but for now... I am definitely stuck!

Romilly 

[brigidmac]

Romily I have one jewish great grandfather 12 percentage who arrived in manchester in 1890 
This is a case where ethnicity could help you .

Probably best to do a separate topic on this or pm me

But basically for all if you have one ggparent with an ethnicity that none of your other ggparents have
Look at ETHNICITY of your matches ...even the ones with no trees

You may find matches that are 100percent Jewish ..or whatever the ethnicity is ...note the names of their greatgrandparents ..or usersurname if no trees

Your matches with half the ethnicty will narrow down which side of family

I have contacted matches with amounts between 12+ 25 percent and asked if they had a great grandparent from Russia ...then worked with them on our respective russian jewish ancestors on mutual  sides
I have 3rd cousins who are 100 percent jewish  mostly in usa some know country of origin others dont so we then look for a UK connection

On my fathers side it is my aunt who is 96percent scottish if my matches match her too but only have a quarter or eighth scottishblood we then know which of their ancestors is a match even if names dont line up

[Romilly]

Thanks bridgitmac, for your thoughts.

I’ve put all of my Ashkenazi Jewish DNA matches into a colour coded group on Ancestry.

The trouble with Ashkenazi Jewish DNA is that because of intermarriage, people often appear more closely related than they actually are. Also, very large segments tend to be passed on.

The adopted son of one of my 100% Ashkenazi matches has given me viewing access to his mother’s DNA test, and it says she has 1000+ close matches!

Another 100% Ashkenazi Jewish DNA match has told me that he doesn’t bother looking at any matches below 100cMs, because they are unlikely to be related below that.

Most of my Ashkenazi matches seem to be at the 4th Cousin level, and to be of German or Czech origin, but it’s very difficult to work out...

Romilly.