Author Topic: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.  (Read 1187 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 00:06 GMT (UK) »
I think this may be John - same church in Tottington as sister Susannah in 1830 but possible promoted to bookkeeper in a mill by 1830

John Haslam
Baptism Date:   26 Jun 1828
Parish:   Bury, Lancashire, England
Father:   James Haslam - overlooker
Mother:   Sarah Haslam

John's baptism was in 1829 at Emmanuel, Holcombe. Born 24th June. Abode Nuttall.
Nuttall was a village with mills which is now the park in Ramsbottom. There are a few photos of it more than 100 years ago on line. They were still in Nuttall when Susanna was born.
Other baptisms at Emmanuel, Holcombe:
Martha 1832
George Edge Haslam 1835
Thomas 1837
Richard 1846
Abode was Chatterton for those 4. Another village with a mill, owned by Thomas Aitken, site of the Chatterton Riot 1826, less than a mile north of Ramsbottom.
Another James & Sarah/Sally Haslam were having children baptised at Emmanuel. Holcombe in the 1830s. They lived in Stubbins, a village between Chatterton and Ramsbottom. That James was a carter. Probably married Sarah Taylor at St. Mary the Virgin, Bury in 1833.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 01:31 GMT (UK) »
I have John at 21 in 1851 living at home in Tottington as a mechanic, but by 9 January1854 he and Eliza Jane ? (b 1830 Bury/Ramsbottom) are married and having their 1st born Susannah, and he is listed as millwright.

Tottington is a small town/village which used to be in the township of Tottington Lower End. John wasn't living in the village of Tottington in 1851.
James & Sarah & children were in the township of Tottington Higher End at the the time of the 1851 census. They may still have been living at Chatterton as the village was in that township.
1861 census John, Eliza + children were in Bridge Street, in the centre of Ramsbottom which was then in Tottington Lower End township.

Brief description + maps of the 2 Tottington townships on GENUKI.

Tottington Higher End
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/TottingtonHigherEnd
Chatterton is between Stubbins and Edenfield on the map.

Tottington Lower End contained Holcombe and Tottington chapelries. Nuttall was in Tottington Lower End.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Tottington

Descriptions and brief histories of the 2 Tottington townships from the Victoria County Histories. Mentions Bridge Street where John lived in 1861.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol5/pp143-150
Cowban

Offline lancsann

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,476
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 13:19 GMT (UK) »
In light of that baptism of George Edge Haslam

Is that marriage I posted for James to Sarah Edge possibly the right one?

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 14:48 GMT (UK) »
In light of that baptism of George Edge Haslam

Is that marriage I posted for James to Sarah Edge possibly the right one?

I think it's very likely correct. I was originally doubtful because 1) the date you'd posted for John's baptism predated the Sarah Edge wedding; 2) the wedding was in Prestwich parish; 3) Haslam is such a common surname in the area. That's why I looked up John Haslam baptisms around 1828 in the Tottington/Bury area and baptisms of any Haslam children there with parents James & Sarah in 1820's & 1830's. Holcombe baptism register includes birthdate, abode and father's occupation, all of which helped to sort out children of the 2 James & Sarah couples. The other James Haslam was a carter and made his mark when he married, so an unlikely candidate to become a bookkeeper.
Prestwich parish was extensive. I assume Sarah Edge lived in Prestwich parish.
I think that Thomas Haslam 1837 was born before birth registrations began. There may have been more babies between Thomas and Richard (1846).

St. Paul's Church, Ramsbottom, the first C. of E. church in the town was founded 1850 so it was new when Susanna was baptised there. Until then baptisms and burials were at Holcombe or Edenfield, the Holcombe curate serving both chapels for most of their existence, and weddings were at St. Mary the Virgin, Bury.  St. Paul's is in Bridge Street where John Haslam lived in 1861. There are only a few years of baptisms and burials on LANOPC and they haven't been on long.
As John and Eliza's marriage was "Registry Office or Registrar Attended" perhaps it was in a Non-Conformist chapel. There were various NC chapels in and around the Ramsbottom, Holcombe, Tottington, Bury areas.
Tottington village got an Anglican church in 1799, St. Anne.
 
Information about Tottington, and Tottington Higher and Lower Ends on the Tottington page of Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Tottington/index.html
Even so LAN-OPC got confused when it came to the list of churches and put Dundee Presbyterian Chapel, Dundee Lane, postcode BL0 9HL under Tottington parish instead of with Holcombe parish.  ::)
However, Dundee and Holcombe Brook Independent Chapel, postcode BL0 9HL is where it belongs, Holcombe parish.
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bury/Holcombe/index.html
 BL0 9HL is the postcode for Dundee Lane which is the present name for the old road which connected the settlements of Holcombe and Nuttall. 
 
Cowban


Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 16:31 GMT (UK) »
Possible baptism for Sarah Edge.
Emmanuel, Holcombe, 23rd July 1808
Sally Edge born 9th July. Parents George & Susan, abode Ramsbottom.
Also Susannah 1811 + 5 other children 1806-1821. George was a printer on some baptisms (calico printer?) Also burials of several children at Holcombe.
George seems to have moved to Baxenden (between Haslingden and Accrington) by 1817 and Clitheroe in 1821 but his children born in those places were baptised at Holcombe. Perhaps Susan returned to Ramsbottom for each birth. She died in Ramsbottom 1821. Young sons who died when George was resident in New Accrington and Clitheroe were buried at Holcombe, including little George 1823. The Edge children may have been cared for by relatives in Ramsbottom after their mother's death. 
Baptisms and burials from LAN-OPC.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 01 December 20 17:00 GMT (UK) »
In light of that baptism of George Edge Haslam

Unfortunately George didn't live long. He was buried at Holcombe 1837, aged 2, abode Chatterton.
Other Haslam burials at Holcombe:
Dec.1848 Susanna aged 18, abode Chatterton
30th Sep. 1855 Susannah aged 2, daughter of John & Eliza Jane, abode Ramsbottom
7th Oct. 1855 George Edge Haslam, infant son of John & Eliza Jane, abode Ramsbottom
(Another family buried 2 young daughters on 21st October.)
Another noteworthy burial at Holcombe was that of Richard Haslam who died aged 23 in 1842, abode Chatterton (spelled as "Chadderton"). 

A Richard Haslam was baptised at Holcombe 1820, parents John & Martha, abode Nuttall. Other children of John & Martha of Nuttall included James 1807.

Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 10 December 20 20:14 GMT (UK) »

John's baptism was in 1829 at Emmanuel, Holcombe. Born 24th June. Abode Nuttall.
Nuttall was a village with mills which is now the park in Ramsbottom. There are a few photos of it more than 100 years ago on line. They were still in Nuttall when Susanna was born.


"Nuttall, Ramsbottom's Lost Village" is a newly published book. The front cover is the photo I remembered, colourised. Summary of contents here.
https://ramsbottomheritage.org.uk/product/nuttall-ramsbottoms-lost-village/
Also featured on the society website is an older book "Nuttall Park and the Porritt Legacy to Ramsbottom".
Cowban

Offline lizzielawton13

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 32
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #16 on: Friday 18 December 20 19:46 GMT (UK) »
This is amazing everyone, Thank you so much for your hard work, it is such a great Christmas Present. :)


Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,226
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Haslam m Eliza Jane, somewhere near Tottington, Bury.... apparently.
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 19 December 20 18:35 GMT (UK) »

George seems to have moved to Baxenden (between Haslingden and Accrington) by 1817 and Clitheroe in 1821 but his children born in those places were baptised at Holcombe. Perhaps Susan returned to Ramsbottom for each birth. She died in Ramsbottom 1821. Young sons who died when George was resident in New Accrington and Clitheroe were buried at Holcombe, including little George 1823. The Edge children may have been cared for by relatives in Ramsbottom after their mother's death. 


Just to clarify "Abode" in church registers. It would have been George's abode at the time his children were baptised or buried. A child of a married couple got her/his right of settlement from the father's abode. This was relevant if they needed to claim poor relief.
It seems to me that George moved around, settling near his place of work, while his wife either remained in Ramsbottom or returned there for births of children.   
Cowban