Author Topic: birth and death records  (Read 2283 times)

Offline jasonm

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birth and death records
« on: Wednesday 06 January 21 23:00 GMT (UK) »
Researching
Margaret Porter nee Bennett born ab 1842 NSW (no record at BDM)
Married Charles Porter 1863 Tamworth NSW (have certificate) per BDM
after Charles died ten years later she started using Bennett again (have his death certificate) per BDM
Margaret hung herself 15 March 1884 at Inverell NSW (Inquest performed) have documents
BDM NSW have no record of birth or death also cant find any burial details
I would like to know her parents were where born and buried, with all the certificates I have all they say is she was born NSW parents not known one of her parents were Aboriginal because the inquest records her as being "half-caste" this may be the reason her records werent kept.

Offline majm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 07 January 21 10:28 GMT (UK) »
Researching
Margaret Porter nee Bennett born ab 1842 NSW (no record at BDM)
Married Charles Porter 1863 Tamworth NSW (have certificate) per BDM
after Charles died ten years later she started using Bennett again (have his death certificate) per BDM
Margaret hung herself 15 March 1884 at Inverell NSW (Inquest performed) have documents
BDM NSW have no record of birth or death also cant find any burial details
I would like to know her parents were where born and buried, with all the certificates I have all they say is she was born NSW parents not known one of her parents were Aboriginal because the inquest records her as being "half-caste" this may be the reason her records werent kept.

Welcome to Rootschat.

Your Margaret's parentage details are not on the civil registration of her marriage certificate because there was a long running dispute between the government and the churches over the amount of detail the government wanted, nothing to do with her Aboriginality ... the disputed went on from 1840s, peaked in 1860s and 1870s, and not sorted until 1890s.  BUT .... the clergy did ask and did record the names of the parents of the bride and groom  and did ask for the age and 'where born ' for bride and groom themselves. Often the town was written there.  There was no where on the Church registers for any mention of race or ethnicity. 

Re inquests.... well, there was  no provision to include race on a death registration, and the likely reason for a lack of civil registration at NSW BDM in that era again has nothing to do with race.  The process was meant to be
1. A sudden death needed to be investigated by the police
2. Police were to inform coroner of anything suspicious
3. Coroner could issue an authority for the burial, public health concerns/No chill room morgue facilities.
4. After medical examination the burial order would be provided to the funeral director
5.. Coroner could conduct inquest after burial, especially in rural districts with long distances to travel...
6. So no one person was responsible to go to court house (often right next to police station) and find the person who could write up the official wth registration in their lical bdm register and then every three months send a summary to Sydney to the Registrar General.

So few regional inquests means even the officials were not used to knowing the paperwork system.

Do you want help finding where the Church  register for the marriage may be archived?

ADD registration of births, deaths, marriages did not start in NSW until 1856, so Margaret, marrying in 1863 would likely have been born before birth registrations started in NSW.

Further ADD You mention 1842 for possible birth .... NSW  bdm has SOME but not all of the Early Churches Records, - early as in the years from penal settlement to establishment of Registrar General of births, deaths, marriages in 1856.  And if baby was not baptised, then there would not ever be a "birth" to be included at that particular index at NSWBDM... 

JM
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Offline jasonm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 07 January 21 23:16 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for explaining the system to me it makes sense now, If I could track down the church record of marriage that may be as far as I can go, They were married at Nombi station NSW by a traveling minister (John James Nash) on 19 Nov 1863 the marriage was registered at Tamworth CoE the BDM record is 02952, Would the church records have any more info than the BDM one?
Thanks Jason

Offline majm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 07 January 21 23:49 GMT (UK) »
Yes,  you should expect far more info on the church record.

The 'blanks' on the NSW BDM records were meant to be included, and in 1912 (yes, over 100 years ago) NSW BDM started to check and reconcile their own records.  WWI stopped that process, it was not ever resumed - funding was not made available.  They only got through much of Metro Sydney's churches registers.  Rural and regional NSW basically is still waiting. 

A long thread here .... has been read over 25,000 times.   https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

The elusive blank column headings that the church register should have noted are :
Birthplace (for both groom and bride)
Age (for both groom and bride)
Father's name mother's name and maiden surname
Father's occupation 

Nombi Station ..... agh .... what were the names of the witnesses to that 1863 marriage...
I have some info on Rev Nash,  yes, many Reverends were on 'circuits' through regional NSW in that era.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline majm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 07 January 21 23:59 GMT (UK) »
The Diocese of Armidale, NSW (so in the heart of the New England district of NSW) includes the districts that Rev Nash had on his circuit.

Here is a possible starting point to enquire about the Parish Register for his marriages in 1863 ...

http://www.armidaleanglicandiocese.com/contact

There is/was also an excellent website focusing on the New England district and Aboriginal Heritage .... and an RChatter  here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=524347.0    and https://sites.google.com/site/newenglandaboriginalhistory/

Hope these leads are useful, and keep asking questions  :)

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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Offline jasonm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #5 on: Friday 08 January 21 00:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi thanks again I've attached the marriage cert to show you some info

Offline majm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #6 on: Friday 08 January 21 00:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks,  and all of the official transcription services are always meticulous to include any comments, so I confirm that your 1863 m.c. has NOT ever been reconciled by NSW BDM.    May I suggest that if you contact the Armidale diocese that you share that document, or at least the details on it with the Diocese, particularly the exact date of the marriage and the Reverend's name.  That will help their archive volunteers to find the correct register if it is held by them still.  (it should be, but the passage of time can make these registers quite fragile if not curated carefully).

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline jasonm

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #7 on: Friday 08 January 21 00:14 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou I have just emailed them just waiting for reply
Jason

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: birth and death records
« Reply #8 on: Friday 08 January 21 01:57 GMT (UK) »

"....after Charles died ten years later she started using Bennett again (have his death certificate) "

Where and when do you see Margaret named as BENNETT after the death of husband Charles PORTER?

Death certificate for Charles PORTER.....can you please list all the information on this document.

Where do you see birthplace NSW....~ 1842 for Margaret PORTER nee BENNETT?

What children have you identified for Margaret?