Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80

[Bill93185]

Hi Andy J2022

Thank you for your valued post.

India and its borders are a little confusing to me and as noted I will obtain a map and seek the towns or areas that have been mentioned.

Thanks Bill Croke - Australia

[Garen]

Andy does raise an interesting point. Really, there wasn't a "scientific" border until the Durand line was established in the 1890s, and even then it's important to recognise that it (and any previous border demarcations) were from a British point of view (especially as various tribes' lands were split).

In the Afghan War, you left Peshawar and entered the Khyber Pass, once you hit Jamrud you were in 'Afghanistan'. A little further was Ali Masjid, the fort that defended the route to Kabul and the site of the first action of the Second Anglo-Afghan war.

This (attached) is extracted from a Military Staff Map, 1879.

[Bill93185]

CONTINUE COMENTS

I hope you may please assist me again as I am somewhat lost and like to correct my understanding on Thomas Francis CROKE history. I have written everything in date and location order, and have included his Service Records.

Previous comments received from RootsChat

Drummer Thomas Croake (69B/854) is on the Afghan War medal roll for the 18th Foot. His regiment garrisoned Peshawar from Jan 1880, moving into the Khyber region in May and staying in and around the area until March 1881, when they returned to India.

A pedantic point I know, but Peshawar and the Khyber Paktunkhwa region which includes the Khyber Pass itself, were part of India throughout the nineteenth century so the regiment never left India. Obviously after 1948 the area became part of Pakistan.

I use the term Khyber region to include the line up to Ali Masjid, Daka, Landi Kotal, Landi Khana, Jamrud - all places the 18th were posted and in the North Afghanistan theatre. They were out of India from May 1880 until March 1881.

Andy does raise an interesting point. Really, there wasn't a "scientific" border until the Durand line was established in the 1890s, and even then it's important to recognise that it (and any previous border demarcations) were from a British point of view (especially as various tribes' lands were split).

In the Afghan War, you left Peshawar and entered the Khyber Pass, once you hit Jamrud you were in 'Afghanistan'. A little further was Ali Masjid, the fort that defended the route to Kabul and the site of the first action of the Second Anglo-Afghan war.


My understanding using information previously obtained before RootsChat.

1.   Thomas Francis CROKE, his father Patrick & family sailed with 1st Bn 18th Foot Reg to India.

They were transported on Troop ship HMS Malabar for India via the Malta, Port Said, through the Suez Canal arriving at Bombay India 13th Nov 1874.
The Euphrates class was a five-ship class of iron screw troopships built for the Royal Navy during the 1860s. They were commissioned jointly by the British Admiralty and the Indian government and used for carrying troops to India etc.

2.   Thomas Francis enlisted in the military - Regimental No. 69B/854.

Thomas when old enough enlisted to serve as a "Boy" with the 1st Btn. 18th Foot Regiment on 25 Feb 1875, attesting on 1 Mar 1875 whilst in India and given his Regimental No. 69B/854.
Thomas is shown on the same muster sheets as his father, Pte Patrick CROKE service No. 69B/503 of 2nd Btn 18th Foot Regiment.

3.   Military - Bareilly Bengal, India

Thomas in the military 1 March 1875, Bareilly in Bengal, India. The Battalion. was stationed at Bareilly 1875 - 1877.
Thomas, now officially signed up, served Feb 1875 to Dec 1877, abt= 24 mths at Bareilly. He was ranked as Private from 25 Dec 1877. .NOTE:- Service records show he was age 17 on 25 Dec 1877.

4.   Military - Ferozepore, Punjab, India

Thomas in the military 30 Jan 1878, Ferozepore in Punjab, India. The Battalion moved 13 Feb 1878 from Bareilly to Loodianah by train, marching on to Ferozepore arriving 24 Feb 1878, then on 29 Sept 1878 two Detachments were sent to Multan and one Detachment onto Dera Ismail Khan. Battalion still stationed at Ferozepore in 1879.
Thomas served in Ferozepore in Punjab from Jan 1878 to Dec 1879 abt=12mths. He was appointed a Drummer on 25 Jan 1879 in Dalhousie, north Punjab.

5.   Military - Afghanistan and India

Thomas in the military Jan 1880. That month 4th - 25th the regiment was on march to Peshawar. Then 30th April 1880 they marched to Lundi Kotal on active service in Afghan war.

Thomas served at Peshawur 1880, Landi Kotei 1881, Kuldana 1881, Murree Hills 1881 and Rawalpindi 1881- 1884... Total service time abt. = 4 1/2 years.

6.   Military - Afghanistan - Khyber Pass

Thomas in the Military 1880. Afghanistan and India (Pakistan), also the British military camp at Landi Kotal, the western end of the Khyber Pass, Afghanistan April - May 1880.
The Khyber Pass is a mountain pass in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan, on the border with Afghanistan. It connects the town of Landi Kotal to the Valley of Peshawar.

7.   Military - Peshawar - Rawal Pindi - Kuldanah

In 1881 the Royal Irish returned to India from Afghanistan, and for the next two and a half years moved between Rawal Pindi and the Hill Station of Kuldurrah.
The Battalion returned to Peshawar 18-19 Mar 1881, at Rawal Pindi on 11th Apr, then 24th Apr marched to Kuldanah in the Murree Hills. Moved Kuldanah to Rawal Pindi 6th Nov 1881. Other various movements throughout 1882 -1883.

8.   Meerut to Bombay across India by train, then sail to Cairo Egypt

The first battalion was in India. It was stationed at Meerut in Aug 1884, when the welcome order was received to start for Egypt forthwith on active service. In high spirits at the prospect of a campaign, all ranks worked with a will; by the 20th Aug. the preparations were finished, and the Royal Irish, after a very hot railway journey from Meerut to Bombay, then on 29 Aug 1884 they sailed to Cairo Egypt.

Thanks Bill Croke
 Australia

[Andy J2022]

Hi Bill,

That seems to be a very detailed description of Thomas Croke/Croake's military career. I have just one comment. In section 6 you say, perfectly correctly, that "The Khyber Pass is a mountain pass in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan"  However, obviously, that was not the case in the nineteenth century and so, depending on the historical awareness of your audience, it might be worth just expanding that sentence to reflect the fact that this is the situation today, rather than then.

As a military historian, I would be inclined to add a couple of sentences to explain the background causes of the Second Anglo-Afghan War and the reason why the troops were in the Peshawar Valley and Khyber region 1880-83, acting as a border force. The Wikipedia article gives a pretty good overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Afghan_War however it doesn't really look in any detail at the events after the Battle of Kandahar.

[Bill93185]

Hello Andy J2022 and Garen 

Thanks again for your discussion........ I will be back.... !
Posts like yours really assists people like myself in looking into family military. Particularly focused on the individual. Background is always a must.

I admit I do not know much on their 18th Regiment movements. Overall I have 3 members of the same family Patrick Croke, father, his 2 sons Thomas Francis Croke and James Croke.

With some effort I will finish off Patrick and Thomas Francis military history first.
Next I will look into James Croke.

Thanks Bill Croke
Australia

[Gunner1984]

John Bogie
Sergeant, 5427
Royal Artillery

John was born on the 16th of May 1859 in Woolwich. He was the third of ten children born to Charles, a Gunner in the Royal Artillery (RA), and Mary (née Martin) Bogie. His father completed over 21 years’ service, including eleven months in China and six and half years in India and was awarded the campaign medal for the Second China War and the Long Service & Good Conduct medal. Whilst the family was accompanying his father during his service in India, on the 21st of June 1875 at the age of 16 years and one month, John enlisted into the British Army and joined his father’s unit, the 9th Brigade (9 Bde) RA, as a trumpeter. 9 Bde was renumbered 1 Bde in July 1877 and the next year, on the 8th of May 1878 having reached age, John was mustered as a Gunner and was posted to I Battery, 1 Bde (I/1).

In 1878, I/1 had received orders to leave India for service in the Mediterranean, however the deteriorating situation in Kabul resulted in their departure being repeatedly postponed. At the outbreak of the war, the battery joined the Afghan expeditionary force as part of General Biddulph’s Division. It marched to Kandahar via the Khojak Pass, arriving at its destination, after encountering many obstacles and experiencing much hardship on the 9th of January 1879. On the 16th of January it marched with the Division towards the Helmand River and after proceeding up the Argandab Valley, halted within a few miles of Girishk, close to the spot which would become famous later in the war as the battlefield of Maiwand. It returned to Kandahar where soon after, due to the success of the campaign, the Government decided to reduce the number of troops in Afghanistan. The battery now received orders to return to India, leaving Kandahar on the 20th of February 1879, retracing its steps through the Khojak Pass to Quetta, where it arrived on the 9th of March. On the 11th it continued its march, and after travelling by rail from Sukkur to Karachi, eventually made its way to Kirki, where it finally marched into quarters on the 22nd of April 1879.

After service in the Second Anglo-Afghan War, John quickly rose up the ranks, being promoted to Acting Bombardier in June 1881, Bombardier in January 1882 and Corporal in February 1884. In November of 1884 John returned to England and having completed his 12 years’ service, he reengaged for a total of 21 years with the Colours in April 1885. John was promoted again to Sergeant in April 1888 and was posted to the RA District Staff in June 1888. The 1891 census shows that John was stationed at Weedon Beck in Northamptonshire, where he was employed as a Staff Clerk, and in October 1893 he was awarded the Long Service & Good Conduct medal for 18 years exemplary service. John was discharged from the Army on the 22nd of June 1896 having completed his 21 years’ service.

On the 9th of March 1887, John married Margaret Carlaw Cuthbertson in Glasgow. John and Margaret had three children, Margaret Mary (b.1887); John Charles Alexander (b.June 1889); and James George Cuthbertson (b.1892). Both sons served during the First World War – John Charles is recorded as being a Second Lieutenant in the 2/1st Battalion Queen’s Own Oxfordshire Hussars (Yeomanry), and James saw service in France with the Army from 1915 before transferring to the Royal Flying Corps in 1918 and becoming a Pilot.

After leaving the Army, John and his family moved back to Glasgow where John held a variety of jobs including cattle inspector and as a municipal clerk. The family moved to along to the mouth of the Clyde to the town of Gourock where John worked as a wharf manager. John was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal with Annuity in 1933.

John died of myocardial degeneration of the heart on the 30th of October 1941 aged 82.

[Bill93185]

Hello Gunner1984.
Another well written article.

I have had posts under this topic "Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-8" regarding my relative Thomas Francis Croke. (1st Btn 18th Foot Regiment Reg. No. 69B/854.) They have been very rewarding in getting history up to when he leaves India.

Now we find him on 29 Aug 1884; sailed with his regiment from Bombay to Egypt on HMS Hankow and three weeks later arrived at Cairo on 29 Sep 1884.

Thomas, now takes part in the war in Egypt from Sep 1884 to Feb 1885. They join an 11,000 strong force to be sent up the Nile to rescue General Charles Gordon in Khartoum.

Can you give guidance to where I may obtain Egypt (Nile Campaigns) Sudan information?

I have read allot on the internet, and get lost in the amount of reading. I seem to drive OK through the first part of the campaign, moving from Cairo 12 Nov1884 southwards by train, barges, sail boats etc along the Nile to the city of Korti on 27 Jan 1884. (Keeping in mind Thomas Francis Croke of 1st Btn 18th Foot Regiment was in this campaign).

I understand two columns were formed; one to stay on the Nile upstream the other column to cross the desert; both hoping to save Khartoum.

I need general information after the fall of Khartoum 26 Jan 1885, particularly how they returned to Cairo as some went via the desert route to join the Nile, whilst others went back on the Nile..... All somehow getting together back in Cairo.

Thomas sailed from Egypt to Plymouth England. He embarked at Alexandria Aug 24 1885, on Steam Ship Stirling Castle, and arrived at Plymouth Sept 9. 1885.

Gunner, I have read my post again, and hope its not to confusing.

Thanks Bill Croke
Cheers from Australia.
 

[nellie d]

Hello Garen.
I have been looking at you website with great interest.
My gt gt grandfather Bomb William Biggs 1699, was in A Battery, C Brigade of the RHA during the 2nd Anglo/Afghan War.
They were based at Peshawar, where my gt grandfather William was born.
It is an amazing piece of research that you have compiled and am looking forward to reading through the posts in this thread…I think it might take me a while.
Basically, I am trying to work out, which battles my gt gt grandfather’s brigade where involved in!

[Andy J2022]

Hi nellie,

You may already know this but in case you don't A Battery, 2nd Horse Brigade (later C Brigade RHA) was formerly the 1st Troop, 1st Brigade Bengal Horse Artillery. Following the Indian Mutiny in 1857 the British realised that it was unsafe to leave the native Indian armies in control of their own artillery.  So, with the exception of the mountain artillery, all the artillery assets of the 3 former Presidency Armies (Bengal, Madras and Bombay) of the HEIC were absorbed into the British Army. However at the time of the Second Anglo-Afghan War, a good proportion of the gunners in the battery would still have been Indians, although virtually all the officers and a smattering of the NCOs would have been British.