Gilbert Family 1891 census

[RayDen]

On the 1891 census (Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4355; Folio: 107; Page: 32;) I have the Gilbert Family:

Household Members:   
Name   Age
Richard Gilbert   40 Born Tredegar  (Husband)
Margaret Gilbert   47 Born Tredegar  (wife)
Annie Collins   24 Born Tredegar  (daughter)
Michael Collins   23 born Tredegar  (son-in-law)
Bridget Kelly   37 Visitor
Edward Kelly   15 Visitor
John Kelly            9  Visitor

I have not been able to locate:
1. a marriage for Richard & Margaret
2. a birth for Annie,
3. a marriage for Annie and Michael, or
4. any previous or future census/BMD information on any of the Gilbert or Collins family named.

Bridget Kelly (MN Broderick) went on the marry a Richard Gilbert but I am not absolutely sure that it is the Richard Gilbert named in the 1891 census (though it probably is but would like some earlier or later census information to help conformation).

Would welcome any help.

Ray

[osprey]

1901 Gilbert family with a Kelly stepson, age out
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9YM-1NX

1911 Gilbert family with the sons younger than in 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7P7-TCS

birth regs
Richard Gilbert dec qtr 1894 Bedwellty mmn Roderick
Arthur Gilbert march qtr 1897 Bedwellty mmn Broderick

Perhaps the enumerator couldn't read the numbers on the 1891 return. 

Possible marriage for Michael Collins sept qtr 1890 Crickhowell vol 11b pg 157 with Annie Enright on the same page.
There's a possible for Michael Collins on the 1871 census in Bedwellty RG10/5321 folio 16 pg 26 as 3 year old Mike, son of John & Mary, all born Ireland.

[osprey]

Bridget in 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V55C-5MQ

possible from 1861
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7T8-XH6

haven't found a marriage to Mr Kelly, but then she married Richard Gilbert as Broderick.

Birth reg for John Kelly dec qtr 1881 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 83 mmn Botharick

Baptisms in Bedwellty
1 April 1908 Arthur son of Richard, collier, and Bridget Gilbert of Railway Terrace, Hollybush dob noted as 16 Nov 1896
6 April 1908 Thomas Henry son of Richard, collier, & Bridget Gilbert of Hollybush
same date Richard son of Richard & Bridget of Hollybush, both noted as adult

Age of Margaret Gilbert on possible death reg 56 in dec qtr 1893 is rather older than her age on the 1891 census. Not sure there was a marriage to Richard.

In support of the Collins/Enright marriage, there's a birth reg
Michael John Collins sept qtr 1891 Bedwellty vol 11a pg 103 mmn Enright.
No sign of Collins family after this.

[RayDen]

Hi Osprey, you have picked up all the information that I have managed to pick up but still does not answer my outstanding problem.  If it were not for the 1911 census I don't think I would have as much of a problem.  On the 1891 and 1901 census Richard Gilbert gives his place of birth as Tredegar BUT on the 1911 census he gives his place of birth as Kent.

I have researched all Richard Gilberts born between 1845 and 1855 and (1) cannot find a Richard Gilbert born anywhere near Wales on that timescale and (2) have eliminated all Richard Gilberts born in Kent during that timescale apart from a Richard Butler Gilbert born 1851 in West Ashford, so I thought he was my man.

But when I found Bridget (Kelly) Broderick on the 1891 census I was confused, because it looked like she was lodging with Richard Gilbert before she married him. BUT I already had the Kent Richard Butler Gilbert on the 1891 census in Kent living with his grandparents, where he had been since birth.

So confused?  Any ideas before I send for the marriage to Bridget???

[osprey]

Yes, confused. 

Think this could be John Kelly in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7PW-LQR

Marriage registered at Bridgend june qtr 1904 for John Gilbert Kelly with Catherine Lewis on the same page.

Edward Kelly living very close to Richard & Bridget
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7P7-THH
daughters Mary and Lilian were baptised at the same time as Arthur Gilbert.

It may be a question of buying the marriage cert to get his father's name & occupation.

 

[RayDen]

Thanks Osprey, yes again I did have the John Gilbert Kelly, but does not help much.  I wonder why there is no birth or marriage for Annie/Anne/Ann Gilbert. Probably a stretch but I would have thought there would have been a marriage if living with parents/in-laws?

Yes will have to be the marriage certificate for Richard and Bridget

Regards

Ray

[osprey]

I don't think Margaret was married to Richard, enumerated as wife, so her daughter Annie is enumerated as daughter.
The marriage could be the one registered at Crickhowell for Michael Collins & Annie Enright and then there's the birth in 1891 at Bedwellty of Michael John Collins mmn Enright.
Crickhowell registration district covered parts of Monmouthshire not far from Tredegar
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/crickhowell.html
There is a possible marriage reg for John Enright march qtr 1862 Bedwellty with Margaret Morgans and Margaret Griffin on the same page.
Not that I can find them on the census.