Author Topic: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet  (Read 1205 times)

Offline NicolleGoldman

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The specific request:
Can someone please look at these sources and tell me the occupation of William BROWN (I’m hoping for Plumber)?  And is there anything to link him to the William Brown born 1824 Bugbrooke, Northamptonshire, who is also a plumber who married Hannah Blackall and was living around Middlesex after 1850?
9 Jan 1831 Chipping Barnet chr Ruth Jane Brown, daughter of William and Sarah Brown
5 Aug 1832 Chipping Barnet chr Harriet Brown, daughter of William and Sarah Brown
1841 Census William Brown b 1788-1792 Hertfordshire, residence Barnet Common in Chipping Barnet
1851 Census William Brown b 1788 Burnett, Hertfordshire, residing on Claremont Row, in Islington
And, IFF the above William Brown is a plumber… (for bonus points!)
Is there a marriage source for that William Brown and wife Sarah?
Is there a christening source possibly from 1824 to 1832 for that man William Brown, a plumber, having a son William Brown?

The detailed background… (skip this if it’s not helpful)
An 1850 Chelsea district marriage registration has William Brown and Hannah Blackall.  He is William Brown born 1824 Bugbrooke, Northampton.  His occupation in the 1850 marriage and in censuses after is Plumber. I have no sources for him before the 1850 marriage. 
Some helpful RootsChat people (in the Northampton forum) saw the marriage image and identified the groom’s father as William Brown, a plumber.  I have found no such person in Northampton in 1841 or 1851 Censuses.
After looking at the indexes of more than 700 images of the 1851 Censuses for men named William Brown born before 1805 (my guess only), I’ve found only ONE that has occupation Plumber.  And he has ties to Middlesex.  But I can’t see the image to figure out if there is more information there that might prove/disprove my theory they are father & son.  (If he’s not the father I’m looking for, then I’ll need to look at more images).
1851 Census in Islington, Middlesex, residence on Claremont Row, William Brown born 1788 Burnett, Hertfordshire, occupation Plumber and Painter, with wife Mary born 1795 London.
I’m thinking birthplace Burnett, Hertfordshire, is actually Barnet which shows up as both Hertfordshire and Middlesex.
I think it’s the same man in that 1851 Census as in this 1841 Census…
1841 Census in with residence Barnet Common in Chipping Barnet, Hertfordshire, as William Brown born 1788-1792 Hertfordshire, with wife Sarah born 1787-1791 Hertfordshire, with children Lucey Brown and Harriot Brown. [I can’t see images, so I’m inferring the relationships given their names and ages]
I could not find any other sources for the daughter Lucy Brown b 1830.
I did find the 5 Aug 1832 christening of Harriet Brown as in 1841 Census, and no other sources for her.
Also, another daughter chr 9 Jan 1831 (born 1828 per Censuses) Ruth Jane Brown, with parents William and Sarah Brown in Chipping Barnet, Hertfordshire.  Ruth Jane Brown was in an institution in 1841 and married James Catchpole in 1850 in Friern Barnet.  Her husband was a (house) painter, and in 1861, “P Glazier & P” which I think is Painter Glazier and Plumber.  I think the plumbing was a trade learned from his father-in-law William Brown who was a plumber.

But if he is a plumber, i still need to tie him to the William Brown. plumber, who married Hannah Blackall and had father with same name and occupation.
+++
Thank you!

Offline maddys52

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 06 March 21 07:27 GMT (UK) »
There is a William BROWN born c1792 at Barnet, with a Sarah (aged 50) and presumably daughters Lucy (11) and Harriet (9) in 1841, however, he is an ag lab. [HO 107/438/4 pg 9]. Willliam and Sarah appear in 1851 at Barnet, again an ag lab. [HO 107/1701 pg 52].

Offline trish1120

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 March 21 09:53 GMT (UK) »
I keep coming back to this one.
Although not a plumber, glaziers/painters were often multi skilled.

1851 Census
Leamington Priors, Warwickshire;
William Brown   Head   Male   63 Widr Painter born   Begbroke, Northamptonshire (1788)
George Walker Brown   Son   Male   26 Painter born   Begbroke, Northamptonshire
(From Familysearch.Org)

1861 George is still unm and born c 1827 Bugbrooke

Appears to be them in Leamington 1841;
William Brown   50 Coal Merchant
Chartolle Brown   40
William Brown   15**
George Brown   15
John Brown   12
Edward Crofts   50 Labourer
Elizabeth Walker 30 Visitor

All not born in County.

Not sure but one to check out.

EDIT, now I know why I couldnt find the 1851 Census on Anc;

William born c 1788 Baybridge, Norway ::)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline NicolleGoldman

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 March 21 16:04 GMT (UK) »
There is a William BROWN born c1792 at Barnet, with a Sarah (aged 50) and presumably daughters Lucy (11) and Harriet (9) in 1841, however, he is an ag lab. [HO 107/438/4 pg 9]. Willliam and Sarah appear in 1851 at Barnet, again an ag lab. [HO 107/1701 pg 52].
Aha!  That means the William BROWN I found in 1841 wasn't the same as the one I was looking at in 1851.  Well, that explains the change in wife.

Can you see this one?
1851 in Islington, on Clarement Row, b 1788 Burnett, Hertfordshire, with wife Mary.  Occ Plumber And Painter.

THAT's the man I need to find in the 1841 Census.  And you've ruled out him being the one with wife Sarah and children Lucy & Harriet, since he is in both the 1841 and 1851 Census with wife Sarah and occ Ag Lab.


Offline NicolleGoldman

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 06 March 21 16:06 GMT (UK) »

9 Jan 1831 Chipping Barnet chr Ruth Jane Brown, daughter of William and Sarah Brown
5 Aug 1832 Chipping Barnet chr Harriet Brown, daughter of William and Sarah Brown


So, in the christening sources is William BROWN a Plumber (or an Ag Lab)?

Offline Lady Di

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 06 March 21 23:33 GMT (UK) »

9 Jan 1831 Chipping Barnet chr Ruth Jane Brown, daughter of William and Sarah Brown
5 Aug 1832 Chipping Barnet chr Harriet Brown, daughter of William and Sarah Brown


So, in the christening sources is William BROWN a Plumber (or an Ag Lab)?

Both christenings have William & Sarah Brown of Shenley, a Labourer
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Offline NicolleGoldman

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 06 March 21 23:47 GMT (UK) »
I keep coming back to this one.
Although not a plumber, glaziers/painters were often multi skilled.

1851 Census
Leamington Priors, Warwickshire;
William Brown   Head   Male   63 Widr Painter born   Begbroke, Northamptonshire (1788)
George Walker Brown   Son   Male   26 Painter born   Begbroke, Northamptonshire
(From Familysearch.Org)

1861 George is still unm and born c 1827 Bugbrooke

Appears to be them in Leamington 1841;
William Brown   50 Coal Merchant
Chartolle Brown   40
William Brown   15**
George Brown   15
John Brown   12
Edward Crofts   50 Labourer
Elizabeth Walker 30 Visitor

All not born in County.

That William Brown looks like a good fit (other than being a Coal Merchant in 1841, but he could have gone into the building trades after 1841).  The Bugbrooke, Northampton births of sons George 1825 and John 1829 put him the right town around the right time to be the father of "my" William Brown, Plumber, born 1824 Bugbrooke.  It's a small thing, and I know the names were common, but "my" William Brown had sons named William, George, and John (and Frederick).  And his first daughter was named Charlotte (for possible mother?) Hannah (for wife Hannah Blackall) Brown.

I don't suppose William and Charlotte Brown christened any of the children (presumably around Bugbrooke)? [If it's not appropriate to be answered here, I can take that one to the Northamptonshire forum.]

Thank you!

Offline maddys52

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 07 March 21 00:29 GMT (UK) »


Can you see this one?
1851 in Islington, on Clarement Row, b 1788 Burnett, Hertfordshire, with wife Mary.  Occ Plumber And Painter.


Possible in 1841:
At 13 Skinner St, St James, Clerkenwell, all born in County except William:

William BROWN      45       builder
Mary                        45
Ann                          19
Sarah                        6
Harriett WELLS        20   (servant)
HO107/ 660/ 6 pg5

Offline maddys52

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Re: 1831 chr, 1832 chr, 1841 Census, 1851 Census, William BROWN born 1788 Barnet
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 07 March 21 01:26 GMT (UK) »


Can you see this one?
1851 in Islington, on Clarement Row, b 1788 Burnett, Hertfordshire, with wife Mary.  Occ Plumber And Painter.


Possible in 1841:
At 13 Skinner St, St James, Clerkenwell, all born in County except William:

William BROWN      45       builder
Mary                        45
Ann                          19
Sarah                        6
Harriett WELLS        20   (servant)
HO107/ 660/ 6 pg5

Maybe not, I think this is that family in 1851 in Islington:
William BROWN     66    St Stephen, Cornwall (retired builder)
Mary                       57    St Giles, Middlesex
Sarah                      15    Clerkenwell
HO107/1500/ pg22