Mary Norris dom. servant to the Crawfords of Clauchaig Farm, Kilmory 1861

[issyb2010]

I know about John - I mentioned all that in my initial enquiry! He never married, the first I knew of him was on the 1901 census and then on Archibald's birth certificate - don't know anything prior to that.  I did find his birth register on ScotlandsPeople website.  I knew he was a tailor but where would he go for 60 years!   

[MonicaL]

Sorry, missed the marital status bit.

Well, 1851 I posted above as a possible for John.

1881 he was at home with father and siblings.

Monica

Added: He also seems to be on the farm for the 1891 census. The entries I can't easily see him on are the 1861 and 1871 censuses.

[issyb2010]

I know about the two census for Mary - that bit confused me too.  In 1871 he was with Alexander Miller (pauper) and Mary Millar (daughter).

Sorry we are cross typing and now I am getting confused   I have John living back home in 1881, 1891 and 1901 - certainly nothing before 1881.

[MonicaL]

I thought you had no trace on John Crawford up to 1901 from your earlier comments.

 I have nothing for him living there until 1901...He did return at some point as he got Mary Norris pregnant in 1867! .... I was wondering if anyone knew of or where John Crawford was during his missing decades (he was listed as a Tailor)...

Monica

[Forfarian]

One reason why a child might be boarding in a pauper household is that he might have become a charge on the parochial board, who then placed him with someone willing to look after him for a few shillings.

If the Kilmory parochial board records have survived, they might tell you why he turns up in this household, and what happened to his parents. These records should, if they exist, be in the care of Argyll and Bute Archives, but if they don't have them they ought to know where they are.

[rosie17]

Hi all there are a few tree's on Ancestry that lists his father as Archibald Crawford
1 tree has a copy of a poor relief application Kilmory Parish
Mary Norris date of application 22 November 1866
Place of birth unknown
Single age 19 servant
Pregnant 5 months and destitute
States she is pregnant by Archibald Crawford residing with his father at Clauchaig Farm
Says she does not know her parent names

Rosie

[Forfarian]

John Crawford is at Clachaig farm with his siblings in 1881, 1891 and 1901.

[Forfarian]

I see from the 1861 census that Mary Norris was aged 13, and born in Glasgow.

In the 1851 census there's a Mary Norris, 4, born Glasgow, daughter of Patrick Norris, shoemaker, 40, born Ireland, and his wife Alice, also born in Ireland.

The Roman Catholic records on Scotland's People have the baptisms of several children to Patrick Norris and Alice Corrigan or Norris, including Mary, born 8 and baptised 12 September 1847 in Glasgow.

Alice Corrigan or Norris, aged 35, mother's maiden surname Todd, died in Glasgow in 1858. That might account for Mary having gone into service at a young age. But not for her being listed twice in the same census!

Patrick Norris, 64, was buried in Dalbeth Cemetery in 1877, but his death certificate says he was 75. If he is your Mary's father, why did she tell the Kilmory parochial board she did not know the names of her parents?   

Mary Norris, mother's maiden surname Corrigan, died in Glasgow in 1873 aged 26.

I think if you get those three death certificates they might clarify what happened to your Mary Norris. And of course the full parochial board application by Mary, and also look for one for Archibald separately.

[MonicaL]

Twists and turns on this one 

I think father Patrick must have included Mary on his 1861 census return in error.

Poor Mary. Sad picture of her from the notes on the relief app in 1866. Maybe she did not want her father to know about her condition. A 16 yrs old RC pregnant girl?

Just by age, it makes sense that Archibald Crawford, was actually the father. Also, Mary gave their son his name as we often see with this type of birth. However, not sure father did show for the birth registration as the birth from the index is only registered under the surname of Norris, with Mary Norris for mother.  He did give the name John when stating his father's name for his 1895 marriage (he stated his name was John Crawford Norris, farmer...but of course, John was a tailor. It was his uncles who continued to farm at Kilmory).

Monica