Two Charles Theodore Martin's, who's mine?

[Girl Guide]

Looks like father Walter died in 1906

Deaths Dec 1906   
Martin    Walter    45    W. Ham    4a   161

The 1911 census has Eva as a widow living at 22 Carlton Road Leytonstone Essex, Low Leyton, London & Essex

She has all five of her children living with her.  Charles is down as a furnisher's apprentice.

Registration district   West Ham
Registration district number   188
Sub-district   North Leyton
Sub-district number   9
Enumeration district number   38
Series   RG14
Piece number   9671
Schedule   289
Census reference   RG14PN9671 RG78PN513B RD188 SD9 ED38 SN289
RG 78 piece number   513

[beckwar]

Thanks girl guide,
Yes the two census entries you've posted are for the family that I have been researching. The birth for CTM you have listed is the one I got the cert for and shows mother Eva Reynolds and father Walter Martin, Walter did die in 1906.

The siblings of CTM, I have found their marriages and descendants. I have 121 cM shared with Winifred Martin's grandson and 37 cM shared with Marjorie Martin's grandson. Older brother Alan had one daughter and she is still living! I wrote to her about the family, she was able to give some Info but her parents separated when she was only five and she lost all contact with the Martin's from that point. Younger brother Frederick, I only recently discovered that he married his cousin, Enid Olive Ray in Willesden 1928. Enid died in 1931. I have not managed to find out what happened to Frederick after this.

Enid had a brother Kenneth Charles Ray born 1902, I have not managed to trace what happened to him after the 1911 census, their father Charles Samuel Millington Ray died in 1905. Don't know what happened to their mother Amelia Ray nee Martin.

I believe the amount of DNA I share with Marjorie and Winifred's descendants would indicate they were likely to be my 3rd cousins? So my grandfather is likely to be a 1st cousin of Alan, Winifred, Marjorie, Charles & Frederick? Can someone let me know if my thinking is right.

[Girl Guide]

Could this be Fred's second marriage?

Marriages Jun 1935

Collier    Thurza J    Martin    Willesden    3a   878   
Martin    Frederic G    Collier    Willesden    3a   878

I noticed on the birth registration that there is no k for Frederic.

MARTIN, FREDERIC  GEORGE     REYNOLDS 
GRO Reference: 1898  M Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 227

[beckwar]

Could this be Fred's second marriage?

Marriages Jun 1935

Collier    Thurza J    Martin    Willesden    3a   878   
Martin    Frederic G    Collier    Willesden    3a   878

I noticed on the birth registration that there is no k for Frederic.

MARTIN, FREDERIC  GEORGE     REYNOLDS 
GRO Reference: 1898  M Quarter in WEST HAM  Volume 04A  Page 227

I have the birth cert, dob 29th Jan 1898.

I also saw that marriage and thought it could be his with the spelling of Frederic. I applied for it but it's not him. The Frederic on the cert is 24, a bachelor, occupation attendant and father's name is also Frederic George Martin, a mechanic who is alive at the time of the marriage.

[mckha489]

Younger brother Frederick, I only recently discovered that he married his cousin, Enid Olive Ray in Willesden 1928. Enid died in 1931. I have not managed to find out what happened to Frederick after this.

The thing that strikes me about that is that he married and his wife died not long after, as per James Douglas Wilson alias CTM.

[beckwar]

Younger brother Frederick, I only recently discovered that he married his cousin, Enid Olive Ray in Willesden 1928. Enid died in 1931. I have not managed to find out what happened to Frederick after this.

The thing that strikes me about that is that he married and his wife died not long after, as per James Douglas Wilson alias CTM.

Yes it does fit doesn't it. But if Frederic was my grandfather then I would still show as being more closely connect to Winifred's and Marjorie's grandsons than I do?

[DianaCanada]

It is possible that Walter was not his father, a NPE, which would explain less DNA to the matches than expected.  Do you connect to any other Martins in Walter’s generation or earlier?

[beckwar]

It is possible that Walter was not his father, a NPE, which would explain less DNA to the matches than expected.  Do you connect to any other Martins in Walter’s generation or earlier?

I share 26.7 cM with the great grandson of one of Walter's sister's and 22 cM with the 3x great grand daughter of one of his brother's. I have also worked out how I connect to three other DNA matches that descend from Walter's father's siblings. So plenty of connections to the Martin's, I just need to confirm where I fit in.

I am looking into more DNA connections at the moment hoping it helps. I have one that shows 124 cM to me and 207.4 to my half brother, does that make them more likely to be a 2nd cousin?

[DianaCanada]

It is possible that Walter was not his father, a NPE, which would explain less DNA to the matches than expected.  Do you connect to any other Martins in Walter’s generation or earlier?

I share 26.7 cM with the great grandson of one of Walter's sister's and 22 cM with the 3x great grand daughter of one of his brother's. I have also worked out how I connect to three other DNA matches that descend from Walter's father's siblings. So plenty of connections to the Martin's, I just need to confirm where I fit in.

I am looking into more DNA connections at the moment hoping it helps. I have one that shows 124 cM to me and 207.4 to my half brother, does that make them more likely to be a 2nd cousin?

There seems no doubt you are connected to the Martins, and there is always a chance that a brother or cousin fathered Charles.  There can be a wide range of how much DNA is passed down, I share 68 CM with a 3rd cousin but my brother (full) shares 169.
I am no expert on the DNA side of things, I find it confusing.  A couple of years after my test, and my brother’s, I managed to narrow my grandfather down to three brothers, and for a great grandfather, have not been able to figure out who his father was.