Author Topic: Patrick McDonald  (Read 7183 times)

Offline groat

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 30 March 21 22:19 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that, With your help I've now found the list of McMahons at Waterloo on Ancestry and Find My Past but there's no Walter. As I've said, Walter McMahon is the name passed down through family oral history so maybe the first name was different. Is there any way of identifying the father of the Sarah McMahon (above) who married Walter McDonnell?

Offline heywood

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 30 March 21 23:04 BST (UK) »
You would need to find a baptism for her and if she was from Castlebar, the records are not available.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1039
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Offline groat

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 12:25 BST (UK) »
It also looks as though she was born too early to appear in those registers. It would seem she must have been born pre-1822. (Patrick being born 1840).
Looks like the end of the road for that line of research. At least you've helped me go back one further generation (always assuming there's an explanation for the McDonald/McDonnell discrepancy - The register entry for Edward's baptism is not that clear. Walter's surname seems to have only one "n" and the last two letters are not very clear - might be McDonald? Similarly the surname of the sponsors on the next line.)

Thanks again for your help.

Ian

Offline heywood

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 13:33 BST (UK) »
Do you have this family? I just came across them and not sure if they have been mentioned.

1861 3664 / 17/ 4

Walter Mc Donald 49 yrs
Sarah Mc Donald 40 yrs
Patrick Mc Donald 20 yrs
James Mc Donald 16 yrs
Edward Mc Donald 14 yrs
John Mc Donald 11 yrs
All born in Ireland and living in North Yorkshire.

I had looked previously but often the space (or not) between Mc and D makes all the difference.  :)

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Offline heywood

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 13:43 BST (UK) »
Joseph gives Castlebar as his birthplace in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7T36-66Z
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Offline heywood

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 13:58 BST (UK) »
Did Patrick marry Mary Harriet Dicker.

In 1881 and 1891 4028/26, Sarah has a grandaughter with her.
Florence Mary MacDonald b 1878.
Birth index shows mother as Dicker.
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 15:19 BST (UK) »

 At least you've helped me go back one further generation (always assuming there's an explanation for the McDonald/McDonnell discrepancy - The register entry for Edward's baptism is not that clear. Walter's surname seems to have only one "n" and the last two letters are not very clear - might be McDonald? Similarly the surname of the sponsors on the next line.)

Spelling of surnames wasn't standardised until elementary education and official written records became common later in the century. Even then there was flexibility. Members of some families didn't agree on a spelling of their surname - there are examples on 1901 or 1911 census and in BMD registrations.

When thinking about spellings of surnames and place-names one has to take into account:
 Many people in Ireland in the first half of 19th century weren't able to read and write and so it was up to the scribe to decide how to spell a word - spelling of a surname in a parish register might change when there was a new clergyman or parish clerk, or if the person moved to a new parish or area;
Accents/dialects;
The first language of some people was Irish, they may have been known to friends & neighbours by the Irish form of their names but by the English version in written records;
There were variations in names and spellings of places. Ireland was the first country in the world to be surveyed and mapped in detail. The work was done by the Royal Engineers regiment of the British Army, assisted by local people (including an ancestor of President Biden in Mayo). 

Irish Ancestors Wizard suggests "at least" 25 variants for the surname McDonald. Gaelic versions include MacDomnaill . Some variants don't have Mac.  Prefixes Mac and O' might be omitted or added according to circumstances. (Your McMahon may have been Mahon in some records.)
https://www.johngrenham.com/wizard/
If you do a search on Wizard for one of your McDonalds with father Walter, including birthplace Castlebar, you'll be led to a list of sources for the place + list of adjacent parishes.

I have a "Mc" surname in my tree. Mr "Mc", born c.1818 was literate and was consistent with the spelling of his name - I've seen his signature several times.  English-born Mrs "Mc" wasn't literate. They lived in England. There were spelling variations in their children's birth registrations and on a census return after the husband's death. When their children were adults they always used the same spelling as their father and it has passed down the generations.
The other side of my family includes Loftus from Castlebar. A simple name but a variant is Loftis. My dad's birth on English GRO births index has been incorrectly transcribed from a printed index and they refused to change it. I got another entry corrected - Mulvee/Mulvie/Mulvey. Those were 20th century births, the 19thC ones had those variants + more.
My Castlebar family also had a military connection.
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 15:24 BST (UK) »
Joseph gives Castlebar as his birthplace in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7T36-66Z

Might Joseph have been John on 1861 census? He had a son John Joseph age 2 on 1891 census (his 3rd son?). His elder sons were George Edward and Walter, possibly significant names.
Walter was hardly a common Irish name. 
Cowban

Offline groat

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Re: Patrick McDonald
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 31 March 21 15:45 BST (UK) »
My GGFather was:
Patrick McDonald
Born Castlebar 1840
Died Chelsea Hospital 1923
Married Bridget Brangan in Brighton, May 1870. Bridget was born (according to the document you're reading) in Clare, Sligo or Tipperary. Father John Brangan, Shoemaker, born Ireland around 1819. The Brangan family were living in Brighton by 1861.
Children of Patrick and Bridget:
George 1872-1948 b Colchester
Marie 1873-1969 b Canterbury
John 1878-1950 b India
James 1882-1970 Brighton