The Disappearing Gibson's of Manchester!

[DavidJP]

Hi all,

I am having a few problems locating some members of my Gibson family & am requiring some assistance please!

My 3x great uncle Charles Gibson (1861-1897) married Margaret Walsh (1862-1913) on 14th Sept 1880 at St Jude's church, Ancoats, Manchester. They went on to have 11 children between 1880 & 1897. I have been unable to find out what happened to 4 of the children. I propose to deal with these children one at a time, mainly to avoid confusion!

I shall start with Charles Gibson (Jnr) born in 1884 in Ancoats, Manchester. Baptised at St Philip's church, Bradford, Prestwich, Manchester on 13th April 1884.

Charles is with his parents in 1891 at  8, Hey Street, Bradford, Manchester (RG12/3258/46/32).
Charles is with his widowed mother in 1901 (Census shows married but Charles (Snr) died in 1897) at 23, Garrick Street, Ancoats, Manchester and is an Iron Moulder. (RG13/3742/126/17)

In 1902, Charles joins the Army not once but twice!

He firstly attested to the 5th Battalion, Manchester Regiment on 19th March 1902. The 5th Battalion were I believe a Militia Battalion.
He then attests to the Manchester Regiment again on 15th May 1902, is posted to the 4th Battalion of the regiment on 11th July 1902, and leaves the army on 15th Nov 1902. The Battalion were in Cork, Ireland at the time of his leaving the Army.

After his time in the Army, absolutely nothing, no marriage, death, nothing! The really strange thing about this is that his family appears not to know what had happened to him either! The 1911 Census at 49, Gray Street, Ancoats, Manchester (RG14/24102/schedule 154) for his mother Margaret and surviving children (she had lost five) just adds to the mystery!

Although Margaret was widowed she helpfully wrote the following information: Married 30 years, 11 children born living, 5 still living and five dead, What of the eleventh! I believe this to be Charles as I can account for the others as of 1911.

So, what the heck happened to Charles? His family didn't seem to know what happened to him and he just seems to have dropped off the face of the earth!

Can anyone help!

Any and all help and assistance as always greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards

David

[Milliepede]

Have you ruled out the Charles Gibson marriage in Mar 1905 Oldham?

Names are

Samuel Brierley
Charles Gibson
Fanny Harmston
Leah Schofield

I think Samuel married Fanny so would be the other couple.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Found that CHarles and Leah on 1911 (as Gulson on Ancestry)

B c1873 in Poulton, Cheshire

Don;t think he's our man

[DavidJP]

Hi Milliepede & Mabel Bagshawe,

Many thanks for your replies, very much appreciated.

Milliepede, thanks for that, I hadn't seen that marriage but in light of Mabel Bagshawe's post, that doesn't look like it's him. Older and wrong birthplace unfortunately.

Mabel Bagshawe, Many thanks for info re that particular Charles & wife Leah. Rules that possibility out anyway.

My thanks again.

Kind regards

David

[heywood]

”My 3x great uncle Charles Gibson (1861-1897) married Margaret Walsh (1862-1913) on 14th Sept 1880 at St Jude's church, Ancoats, Manchester. They went on to have 11 children between 1880 & 1897.”

Lancashire BMD http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php
Charles Gibson married Margaret Marsh on September 19th 1880
(Marriage record available on Ancestry)

The children are indexed on Lancashire BMD with mmn  Marsh or Mash (Charles -Mash). There is George with mmn Nash too which I assume is a variant on transcription.

This is interesting.
There is a published tree which shows Charles Gibson as John Capper.
From this information I can see:

Ancestry shows Soldiers Effects records
John Capper - alias Charles Gibson (Moulder)
His effects were authorised to his wife Jane and child

John Capper was killed in France in 1914
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/878034/JOHN%20CAPPER/

[heywood]

Lancashire BMD shows 1914 marriage
Charles Gibson to Jane Bradley - Registry office or Registrar attended

Added
Possibility for John Capper/Charles Gibson in 1911

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7V4-QZB

[heywood]

“He firstly attested to the 5th Battalion, Manchester Regiment on 19th March 1902. The 5th Battalion were I believe a Militia Battalion.
He then attests to the Manchester Regiment again on 15th May 1902, is posted to the 4th Battalion of the regiment on 11th July 1902, and leaves the army on 15th Nov 1902. The Battalion were in Cork, Ireland at the time of his leaving the Army.”


 I went back to the tree and can see his military record. He attested to the Kings Regiment in February 1903 as John Capper.

[DavidJP]

Hi Heywood,

Many thanks indeed for your replies, very much appreciated indeed!

To say that I am astonished by your findings, would b an understatement! No wonder I couldn't find him!

As regards the marriage date for Charles Gibson (Snr) & Margaret Marsh, thanks for that, I may have picked up a banns date instead, so  thanks for that!

The children are indeed shown with mother's maiden surname as either Marsh, Mash or Nash. I currently have names for 9 of the 11 children. The two others with the maiden surname of Marsh (Dorothy in 1894 & Charles Leonard Marsh Gibson in 1899) are the children of a James Gibson & Eleanor Louisa Marsh, who married in 1893, no relation as far as I can tell! The two missing children are clearly 2 of the five who had died by 1911.

Thanks for the marriage of Charles (Jnr) to Jane Bradley, much appreciated. The child mentioned in the Soldiers effects register would appear to be a daughter. Elsie Gibson's birth was registered in the 4th qtr of 1914, which would suggest that she was almost certainly born after Charles death.

Have found that Charles Gibson/John Capper was only in France for 3 days before his death. They arrived on the 23rd August 1914 and he was killed in action on the 26th August during the fighting at Haucourt in the battle of Le Cateau. Link here: http://www.kingsownmuseum.com/fww-centenary008.htm

He was one of 65 men of his battalion who died as a result of the battle on 26th August 1914.

Lastly do you have a link to the published tree that you mention please, as I have as yet to find it myself.

Just remains to find out why on earth he changed his name to John Capper from Charles Gibson!

My thanks to you again, your help is very much appreciated.

Kind regards

David

Edited to add:

Many thanks for the 1911 Census possibility as well, I think that has to be him to be honest! Thanks again. David.

[heywood]

It’s very sad re his marriage/death and the child’s birth. The poor woman.

I just searched for his name, birth etc and the tree shows up - Charles Gibson, 1884, Manchester with parents names and the records reveal the change of name but I can’t see an explanation.