Author Topic: Mac, Mc. & Mc  (Read 1370 times)

Offline Rena

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 23 June 21 02:12 BST (UK) »
My late father was part of the Scottish Highland clan of M'Kenzie; McKenzie; Mackenzie; Mckinsie.  When reading old historical documents  anyone with that surname is just noted as "M", such as John M, etc.

"Mac" means the "son of"

If you're interested in the origins and meaning of your clan surname you might be surprised at the meaning.

There was no right or wrong way of spelling a Scottish Clan surname in years gone by.  Even during my lifetime every parish/village, etc., had their own local pronunciations and any stranger to the wider area would write down what they heard.
.   
One thing I have noticed is that the Welsh and Irish clans usually use the "Mc" variation thus one of the Irish surnames on my ancestral tree is always "McCarthy" - excepting where an official was used to writing down Scottish son of X  (MacX).

If you post the medal card on the military board somebody will be able to explain the wheres and whyfors of the regiment, the regimental numbering and the medals, etc

Best Wishes, Rena
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline dublin1850

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #10 on: Friday 25 June 21 18:11 BST (UK) »
Mc/Mac names can also appear in documents as M', for example M'Keon.
Coffey, Cummins [Rathfalla, Tipperary], Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Harristown and Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA and also with ancestry
GEDCOM file: 1980344

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 26 June 21 14:09 BST (UK) »
To confuse matters even further, female forms of Irish "Mc" names, when spoken or written in Irish, aren't Mac or Mc. Female form varies according to her relationship to the significant man in her life. She might be "Mhic" (wife of) or "Ni" or "Nic" (daughter of).
There may be examples on 1911 census of Ireland.
Female form of "Mac" in Scots Gaelic is "Nic".

More confusion. Some of my Irish ancestors were Nicholson. It's possible that they were also known as McNicholas (or similar) in Ireland.
Cowban

Offline Jadea55

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 01 July 21 15:19 BST (UK) »
I hoped that there might have been a reasoning behind how it was written, I think I might just be grasping at straws to try and make sense of  all of this!!  :-\


Offline Rena

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 01 July 21 15:59 BST (UK) »
I hoped that there might have been a reasoning behind how it was written, I think I might just be grasping at straws to try and make sense of  all of this!!  :-\

If you have seen an old page that contained at least two people with the same Scottish Clan surname and one was written with a short form version = Mc; M' ... and one was written with the full version of "Mac".  Then it's a good guess that the person with the "Mac" held some sort of elevated position in the area and wasn't a labourer for instance.

Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline GR2

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 01 July 21 17:45 BST (UK) »
There really is no significance at all. Here is a clan chief (Caledonian Mercury) with an abbreviated mac and a labourer (Inverness Courier) without an abbreviation.

Offline Hector99

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 10 July 21 18:08 BST (UK) »
My maternal Grandfather lived with his family on the Island of Luing in the Inner Hebrides, and were Gaelic speakers, but also spoke English.  Their name was spelled as McLean.  His father went on the Arizona Goldrush, and was logged in the US Census, Tombstone, Arizona as Mc Lean.

The family moved to Glasgow about 1900, and they decided that they would now be MacLean.

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Mac, Mc. & Mc
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 11 July 21 10:21 BST (UK) »
Ireland is exactly the same as Scotland. M’, Mc, Mac are all interchangeable and the spelling will often flow between them all within the same family. As in Scotland, the further back you go the more common M’ becomes.

The idea of a single or correct spelling for a surname or a place name in Ireland is very much a recent phenomenon designed to meet the needs of modern officialdom. Before that there was no consistency. Names were spelled phonetically and each variation was down to the whim of the particular person recording the information. You will often see the spelling change as the records go back. This rarely indicates a deliberate decision to alter the name, nor even a mistake. Not everyone was literate, but even when they were, exact and consistent spelling simply wasn’t something they bothered about. In addition to varying the actual spelling, O’ or Mac prefixes were optional and were often omitted.

In 1899, the Rev Smith reviewed the early records of Antrim 1st Presbyterian church (covering the years 1674 to c 1736). He noted: “Even the same word is not always spelled alike by the same hand. Indeed spelling with most of the recording officials (and they must have been fairly numerous) was a matter of the most sublime indifference. The name William, for instance, is spelled 3 different ways in as many lines; while Donegore, a neighbouring parish, is spelled 10 different ways; but these extend over a good number of years. Many families names are spelled phonetically, while others are given in the most round-about fashion.”

So expect spelling to vary. That was the norm.
Elwyn