Fordes' from Buittle, Kirkcudbright

[IrishAussie16]

It's been a number of years since I first did the family tree, now looking at it I can't find a birth record for Sarah, but I am seeing the info for location of her birth from another tree...

If I go back 2 generations, that is my great grandmother, Ivy McKnight and she was born and died in Australia. I know that for sure as I met her. I was given her father's name, William McKnight, by family and have the burial location of him as in Australia as well. I have an Australian marriage record of him in 1888. I have not found him on a passenger list yet. I have just found another tree which has all the same information but has a birth location for Newry, Armagh, which I attached as well. Maybe this will be correct? If I can locate his proper birth record or maybe a baptism record through the church. It actually puts his birth about 6 years later than what I thought it was. I'll try to find some Australian census or electoral information on him to see if any can confirm his dob.

I'm still a little lost on trying to locate the correct Sarah Jane Forde. I won't assume that she was born in Scotland, but it's such a common name in the UK.

I will have a look at the links you have sent.

[Neale1961]

William McKnight’s marriage record (which you say you have) from 1888 QLD will include information about his birth, and more.

If he died at 95 in 1855, that puts his birth abt 1860.

This is the birth record for William McKnight 1866 Newry, that you mention above.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03522/2295989.pdf
Not sure it is correct for your William.

[Elwyn Soutter]

I think the thing to do is to verify each generation, step by step. So, as Neale 1961 has suggested, I would get William & Sarah Jane’s 1888 Qld marriage to confirm his parents names (and any other information that may be there eg occupations, alive or dead etc).

There’s reference to an 1866 William’s birth. That was an illegitimate birth in Newry workhouse to a Jane McKnight. (No father named). However birth registration only started in Ireland on 1.1.1864 so if your William was born before that (as his age at death suggests), you aren’t going to find him in the statutory birth registers. You would need to search the records for the parish where he was born for his baptism. Those records are probably not on-line but may be in PRONI in Belfast.

Let’s see what the marriage certificate says first?

Be cautious about collecting data from trees on Ancestry. There are lots of mistakes on them, and folk are quick to copy those mistakes to other trees without doing anything to check the information.  Trees can be useful as a hint, if you can’t find any information through other routes. Look to see what evidence the owner of the tree has put up. Often there isn’t any or it’s surmised. Original research is essential if you are to have a reliable tree.

[IrishAussie16]

I have the option of downloading a marriage image or a marriage source image. Both the same price, but I don't know if one is better than the other...

[Neale1961]

The best one is
Marriage Source image / Historical source image. $23.30

[IrishAussie16]

Here is the big reveal....

Firstly his parents are listed as John McKnight  - school master and Sarah Jane Forde.

His age at time of marriage (10th Jan 1888) was 22.

His birth place is listed as Newry, Armagh, Ireland

The church they were married in is listed as the Presbyterian church of Queensland.

And his occupation is a tailor

So if he was 22 in in 1888 then that puts his birth year about 1865-66, depending on if he had already had his birthday that year....

One of the witnesses is a John beard, I just had a look at someone else's family tree by the name beard! Married to one of Sarah's relatives.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Well we now know the right set of parents.  William being born 1865/1866 is going to be tricky though.

As I mentioned previously John & Sarah had a daughter on 3rd Oct 1865. Un-named on the birth certificate but looks to have been Annie judging by some of the trees. Then there was another un-named female on 26.6.1867. And Sophia followed on 7.9.1869.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03478/2278184.pdf

Is there enough time between those first two to have had another in mid 1866? I wonder. But the acid test is that there isn’t a birth that matches in the statutory records. My own guess is that William was born pre 1.1.1864 and that accounts for the absence of a birth certificate. Irish people didn’t celebrate birthdays in the 1800s and when officialdom asked for an age or date of birth they often just guessed or made one up.

But on the positive side you know John’s parents with some certainty, and you know that John’s father was William, a farmer. You also have Sarah’s father’s name and his date of death.

I notice that John & Sarah didn’t have any more children after 1876. I therefore wondered if that could be because one of them had died? Here’s what looks to be Sarah’s death on 7th April 1876. Post natal causes:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1876/020589/7224243.pdf

I discovered John appears to have remarried to Esther Downs in 1883:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10932/5994716.pdf

I think this is his death in Belleeks in Jan 1897. Informant was his son James:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05878/4667019.pdf

This looks to be the widowed Esther in the 1901 census, together with what must be John’s unmarried brother William and son James, born 1876:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Balleek/Balleek/1034955/

Same family in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Belleek/Belleek/305138/

James McKnight b 1876 married Hannah McKnight in 1917.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09743/5535682.pdf

They had at least 3 children (records within the past 100 years are not on-line so I can’t give details of any others):

William George McKnight 1.6.1918
Thelma Agnes 2.1.1919
John 4.8.1920

Probate abstract: McKnight Hannah Maria of Belleeks county Armagh widow died 5 December 1943 Administration Belfast 28 June to John McKnight farmer. Effects £338 5s.

Perhaps some of their descendants are still there? Hopefully some of this gets you back on the right track with the family. You might need to amend your tree a bit.

[Neale1961]

A couple of other thoughts to add to Elwyn's excellent last post.

Since William McKight was named after his maternal grandfather, (William Forde) it is likely he was the first born son in the family - therefore born 1862-64 and before registration.

When William married in QLD, he may have reduced his age a little, especially if his bride was quite a bit younger than he. If you can find the ship he came to Australia on, it may give you another version of his year of birth.

[IrishAussie16]

Elwyn,

The death of Sarah Jane Forde looks legit, but the marriage for John doesn't look like the right one as it lists his father as David McKnight. But that's not to say he still didn't remarry...

Neale,

You could be right about his age not being accurate on the marriage documents. His wife has put that she is 18. Could he have really been 28? And looking at the headstone of his burial it says he was 95 at the time of passing in 1955. So that still confused me a bit, unless he fibbed his age somewhere. Would 1860 be too early though? Or is it wrong on the headstone too?

I went through all the documented passenger lists for qld, assisted or otherwise. No luck with finding him. Unless they also recorded his name wrong (which I have found with other Mc names) there are a lot of William Knights who travelled to Australia. Maybe they didn't get the Mc in his name?
Otherwise he came through nsw or Vic and made his way up to Brisbane.

I just don't have anything on him in Australia until his wedding, and then nothing on him again until 1903. They were listed as living in Fortitude Valley until they moved out to the little country town of Charleville between 1904-1907 and stayed there until they passed.