Author Topic: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find  (Read 2214 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 05 October 21 23:51 BST (UK) »
Neale has shared some very wise words there, and I fully support his comments.   

ADD, Ricky, could you perhaps consider encouraging your friend to join RChat ... the friend that you are helping research their Thomas Hunter STUART  :)   
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=853526.0

JM
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Offline RickyJack

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 06 October 21 01:35 BST (UK) »
Never gunna happen JAM ...He gets to enjoy the Criticisms, I have to defend my post, for enjoyment he quoted Albert Einstein If the Facts dont fit the theory, change the facts!!!!

I rang clan Hunter for a chat, an interesting point I shall share with you ...Solicitors and Lawyers in Scotland were few compared to general population, when their names were written normally had WS beside like a Doctor MD ..which our Thomas the attorney did not.
WS means Writer to the Signet...There is information Members of society of writers to her Majesty Signet so looking for a Hunter I found one...
Thomas Hunter Baile in Carsland Ayrshire apprentice to James Farquharson 11 Nov 1647, one would speculate that our Thomas probably came down from this Family.. the thinking is if you was a farm labourer your son was not normally an Attorney
4 others but only one Thomas
 William Vary Hunter auditor of the court son of John 1837-1872 and another John Hunter WS 1801-1869
point is.... our attorney is there Im sure, just not looking in the right spot
 

Offline majm

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 06 October 21 02:44 BST (UK) »
Never gunna happen JAM ...He gets to enjoy the Criticisms, I have to defend my post, for enjoyment he quoted Albert Einstein If the Facts dont fit the theory, change the facts!!!!

I rang clan Hunter for a chat, an interesting point I shall share with you ...Solicitors and Lawyers in Scotland were few compared to general population, when their names were written normally had WS beside like a Doctor MD ..which our Thomas the attorney did not.
WS means Writer to the Signet...There is information Members of society of writers to her Majesty Signet so looking for a Hunter I found one...
Thomas Hunter Baile in Carsland Ayrshire apprentice to James Farquharson 11 Nov 1647, one would speculate that our Thomas probably came down from this Family.. the thinking is if you was a farm labourer your son was not normally an Attorney
4 others but only one Thomas
 William Vary Hunter auditor of the court son of John 1837-1872 and another John Hunter WS 1801-1869
point is.... our attorney is there Im sure, just not looking in the right spot
 

Ricky,  I am sure that family history buffs have long known about "'W.S. "  I see this 2005 thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=111482.0

JM





The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 06 October 21 09:40 BST (UK) »
I rang clan Hunter for a chat, an interesting point I shall share with you ...Solicitors and Lawyers in Scotland were few compared to general population, when their names were written normally had WS beside like a Doctor MD
I'm afraid that that is incorrect information.

A WS is a Member of the Society of Writers to His/Her Majesty's Signet. This is a voluntary association of lawyers, the majority of whom are or were partners in high-profile law firms in Edinburgh and Glasgow, and there was no requirement for any lawyer to become a member of the Society. I have somewhere (not to hand) a copy of the Register of the members of the Society, which contains a brief biography of every member, and I have come across relatively few who practised in small towns or rural areas.

The most common term for a lawyer in Scotland in the early 1800s is simply Writer. Not Writer to the Signet.

If you don't want to believe me see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Writers_to_Her_Majesty%27s_Signet
and the Society's own web site https://www.wssociety.co.uk/about/who-we-are
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 06 October 21 12:00 BST (UK) »
All this is very confusing. I'm not even sure who it is we are actually looking for, but assuming that we are looking for the parentage of Thomas Stuart or Hunter of the 78th Regiment, who married Sarah Roslyn in 1844 and Emma Ireland in 1881, then we have

1. His father was Thomas Hunter. Thomas Hunter is described in 1844 as an Attorney and in 1881 as a Solicitor. As already explained, an attorney is not a specific profession in Scotland, so you need to look for a man described as a solicitor or (given the date) more likely as a writer.
2. In the 1851 census Thomas gives his age as 32 and birthplace as Scotland. In 1861 he says 42 and born Scotland. This implies that he was born in 1818 or 1819.
3. In 1891 he says he is 74 and born in New Abbey, Dumfries. That gives a birth date of 1816 or 1817. In the original document it looks as if the enumerator has first written just 'Abbey' and has later added 'New' and 'Dumfries'. As has already been pointed out, New Abbey is in Kirkcudbrightshire, not in Dumfries-shire.
4. He changed his surname from Hunter to Stuart/Stewart about 1851.
5. There is a Thomas Hunter, Private, 78th Regiment, born Scotland, in the barracks in Blackburn in the 1841 census. This implies a birth between 1816 and 1821, so he could be the same man.
6. There is a service record of Thomas Hunter, No 2849, in the 78th Regiment, who were stationed in Aden until 1 April 1851. The 1851 census was taken on 30 March 1851 and shows 'your' Thomas Hunter living at 21 Fleet Street with wife and children. So it seems unlikely that No 2849 is Sarah's husband. If he isn't, then Sarah's husband must have been discharged from the Army between 1844 and 1851. (And which one is the one in the barracks in 1841?)

It is possible that the Edinburgh solicitor who died in 1848 was the father of 'your' Thomas, and that he named his son in his will, so it might be worth having a look at the will. The inventory is a list of his assets, so probably not worth looking at this unless the will provides useful information.

Thomas jr's Army service record, if it can be found, should also be useful.

FWIW I also think that Thomas Jr was probably illegitimate, but as there is nothing in the New Abbey Kirk Session records, looking for information in other Kirk Sessions would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. A large needle and a small haystack, perhaps, but still not an easy task.

You could try one of the web sites that specialises in indexing old records and finding paternity suits
https://www.scottishindexes.com/paternitysearch.aspx
https://www.oldscottish.com/sheriff-court-paternity-decrees.html

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 06 October 21 15:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks Forfarian for going to the trouble to reiterate all this.
Ricky has been given this same information numerous times across three different threads, but he has chosen to ignore it.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 06 October 21 16:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Neale1961.

There do seem to be shoals of red herrings swimming around these threads :)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline RickyJack

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Re: Thomas Hunter b 1817 Abbey Dumfries his dad Thomas Hunter [Attorney]cant find
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 07 October 21 06:22 BST (UK) »
All this is very confusing. I'm not even sure who it is we are actually looking for, but assuming that we are looking for the parentage of Thomas Stuart or Hunter of the 78th Regiment, who married Sarah Roslyn in 1844 and Emma Ireland in 1881, then we have....

haha...very good.....No red herrings, but a very shallow pool....initial post was our brick wall Thomas Hunter Stuart and finding his dad, With the help of many "chatters" were not only able to find siblings with similar Hunter names their kids and found his dad, a huge leap forward, while momentum going hard joined another another two threads, one more local Scottish, the other stretching the net even wider to Scotland General, to my surprise this was much more difficult, thinking Scotlandspeople would have given us an attorney or a sibling to Thomas the Soldier and Tailor.
Looked at all links offered, and even
Quote
speculation upon speculation, even started to have a look at wills
Ive mentioned to this family that they have a good result here, so rewrite the family story, adjust the Familytree and get a familyfinder DNA to confirm the Hunter relationship.

The weather lately has been poorly here to say the least, so have been able to spent far more time hunting for the Hunter attorney and the prize for the two weeks was a homegrown bag of artichokes.
Thankyou, stay safe...Rick