Gypsy families Gritt/Smith

[Bumble226]

Hi my grandfather was Frank Gritt born 1868, parents William Gritt and Mary Sherred known as Granny Gritt.
Frank was married to Ellen Green. Then he married my grandmother Violet Smith in 1923 at Bishops Waltham Hants. They lived Corhampton Downs, hawkers. Violet was 23 and father William Smith deceased, labourer. Violet was 53 when she died in 1957 buried with Frank at Fawley, Hants. Violet in 1939 stated she was born 1903 June no day.
Both my grandparents died before I was born my mother being the youngest daughter of Frank and Violet. My mum has just turned 80 and has no recollection of any family on her mothers side of Smith.
It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack. If any one can help it would be much appreciated to tell my mum about her mothers birth and her family. Violet was a Romany.

[rosie99]

Welcome to rootschat

Who were the witnesses to the 1923 marriage and where did it take place

ADDED In case you are interested there are a few mentions of Frank Gritt on the British newspaper website, it is possible to get a free trial but your local library may also have access

[Bumble226]

Frank and Violet married 30 July 1923 at Bishops Waltham Hants. Both were noted as living Corhampton Downs. Probably in a tent or caravan. The witnesses were Ellen and George Hoare. Ellen was Franks daughter from his first marriage to Ellen Green.

[rosie99]

It seems that no one can help you further at the moment, though maybe me replying will bring it to someones attention. 

With the promise of the release of the 1921 census in January hopefully you will be able to locate Violet in the area she married in 1923.

Sorry I have not been able to help further at this time

[Bumble226]

Thank you for your help. Yes May be 1921 census will throw something up. I have been given an email for someone researching Smith surname see if I get any where in that direction.

[Bumble226]

Well the 1921 census has made tracing my grandmother harder still. I have her marriage certificate to my grandfather Frank Gritt in 1923, she is 23 and Frank 54. What a surprise when two years earlier she is on 1921 census living and named as violet Gritt, Franks wife age 23. Date of birth 1897 Somerset. She was obviously living in sin.

[Darnity]

Well the 1921 census has made tracing my grandmother harder still. I have her marriage certificate to my grandfather Frank Gritt in 1923, she is 23 and Frank 54. What a surprise when two years earlier she is on 1921 census living and named as violet Gritt, Franks wife age 23. Date of birth 1897 Somerset. She was obviously living in sin.

Which suggests that Frank was already married to someone else and so they couldn't legally marry. Look for the death of previous wife for Frank in 1923, which event meant that he and Violet could now marry.

What does Frank claim his condition to be when he and Violet marry - widower?

(I have an example from the 1840s where the groom claims to be a bachelor but in fact had lost his wife a few months earlier. They married a very long way from the area the family used as their base, I think so that there would be no-one who knew about his previous wife and I think the reason, although I have yet to prove it, is that his new bride was the niece of his first wife and they were worried about rules about marrying close family members).

[Talacharn]

Death: Oct-Dec 1918 . Ellen Gritt . 48 . Romsey . 2c . 284
Death: Jan-Mar 1920 . Ellen A Gritt . 64 . Portsmouth . 2b. 623

If both were travelling in different areas, the news could have taken some time to reach them.

[Talacharn]

Frank Gritt . mmn Sherwood
Oct-Dec 1868 . Wimborne . Volume 05a . Page 266
Frank Gritt . mmn Ward
Jan-Mar 1874 . Romsey . Volume 02c . Page 74

The 1921, says he was born in Dorset which is Wimbourne.