Shore leave from Royal Navy WW1 HMAS Sydney

[goatfish77]

I am trying to work out if my paper trail great grandfather was really the biological father of my grandmother. Her birth date was the 22nd of November 1917 so she would have been conceived around mid February 1917. However my great grandfather’s Royal Navy ratings card says he was on board HMAS Sydney at this time which was patrolling the North Sea. I’d like to know if it might have been possible for him to have shore leave and get from Scotland down to south Wales to conceive a child or if it’s more likely that my great grandmother had an affair!

I found this extract from The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918 a 12-volume series covering Australia's involvement in the First World War which shows some of the movements of the ships in the fleet during this period and it doesn’t look like he would’ve had chance for any shore leave in February (pg 288 onwards) but I don’t know if I can find the actual ships logs unless I visit the archives in Australia:
https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1069731/document/5519220.PDF
 
There is also a handwritten log by an unknown sailor but for some reason I can only view the 1st page! Is there anyone more tech savvy out there?:
https://collections.sea.museum/objects/40482/commission-of-hmas-sydney-and-record-of-steaming-25-june-191#showImages

If anyone knowledgeable in Royal Navy life during WW1 has any thoughts I’d be grateful to hear them.
Thanks,
Lisa

[CaroleW]

Have you considered DNA?

Did your great grandfather sign the original birth registration accepting he was the father?

What are the full dates of service aboard his ship covering the period of conception?   If he had a period of leave I would have thought his record would show it

My cousin recently found via DNA that her grandfather had fathered a child to a married woman back in 1936.  His name is shown as the father on the birth cert but because he had quite a common name I obtained a copy of the original entry for her as we had his signature on his military documents.  He was the daddy 😁😁

[goatfish77]

Hi Carole,

His ratings card says:
30 August 1916 -Hostilities
30 August 1916 to 30 October 1916 Vivid II (Devonport written at the top of the card could refer to this?)
31 October 1916 HMAS Sydney
17 May 1917 to 21 July 1917 Shore
Demobbed

So if he was on board the ship for the whole of the period from October 16 to May 17 with no Shore leave then he could not be the father.

I have my grandmother‘s birth certificate but that is not signed by her father. Would I need to obtain the original entry from the local records office to see a signature?

Yes I have done DNA and appear to be missing matches on his side. But just in case that is just due to no one testing or the randomness of DNA inheritance this would be further evidence against him being the father.

I do seem to have a group of unknown matches in my DNA relating to a family in East London but am struggling to find a connection with South Wales where my Great grandmother lived at the time.

[willyam]

Lisa,

Given that you posted your enquiry yesterday, which happened to be World Prematurity Day, have you considered the possibility that your grandmother might have been born prematurely - and thus she was conceived later than mid February 1917.

Willyam

[goatfish77]

A very good point!
How likely do you think it would be that a premature baby born at 27 weeks old or just over 6 1/2 months gestation would survive in 1917?

[majm]

Are you sure that baby's mum was in South Wales when baby was conceived?

When was HMAS Sydney refitted and was that at Devonport or elsewhere?

JM

[tonepad]

Are you sure that baby's mum was in South Wales when baby was conceived?

When was HMAS Sydney refitted and was that at Devonport or elsewhere?

JM

As previously stated HMAS Sydney was patrolling the North Sea around February 1917.

"On 9 September 1916 Sydney (I) finally left Bermuda, arriving at Devonport on 19 September before proceeding to Greenock for refit. On 31 October 1916 she was temporarily attached to the 5th Battle Squadron at Scapa Flow. On 15 November she sailed for Rosyth and on arrival joined her sister ships HMS Southampton, HMS Dublin and HMAS Melbourne as part of the 2nd Light Cruiser Squadron, attached to the 2nd Battle Squadron of which HMAS Australia was the flagship. For the remainder of the war her service was confined to North Sea patrols.

On 4 May 1917, while on patrol from the Humber estuary to the mouth of the Firth, Sydney (I) fought a running engagement with the German Zeppelin (airship) L43 until Sydney (I) had expended all the anti-aircraft ammunition and the L43 all her bombs - ‘the combatants parted on good terms’. A number of small bomb splinters landed on Sydney’s upper deck.

Later, in August 1917 Sydney (I) commenced a three month refit at Chatham, ..."


https://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-sydney-i-part-2


Tony

[willyam]

Lisa,

I would imagine that there would have been many variable factors involved in respect of the survivability of a premature baby in 1917 - added to which would have been the sheer determination of the new-born child to live.

One additional thought has occurred to me and that relates to your grandmother's baptism date.

I have encountered a number of baptism records where a child was baptised on the day it was born, quite often where the record has been annotated with the letter 'P' - which I understand indicates a private (and possibly a bedside [rather than an in-Church]) baptism.

Such speedy baptisms were probably effected because the baby was not expected to thrive & survive - as could well have been the case where the birth was very premature.

If perchance you know the date that your grandmother was baptised there may be a helpful clue hidden there.

Willyam

[goatfish77]

Are you sure that baby's mum was in South Wales when baby was conceived?

When was HMAS Sydney refitted and was that at Devonport or elsewhere?

JM

No I cannot be sure where my great grandmother was when the baby was conceived.
If only I did, that might solve the mystery.

All I know is she had her first daughter registered in Swansea around November 1915 then her husband was enlisted the following year.
I don’t think she was well off or would’ve had the means to travel necessarily but social history is not my strong point.
Her mother died when she was an infant and she was taken in by her aunt and uncle who then moved to Wales and in the 1911 census she was a servant in Cwm twrch in the rural Welsh Valleys. My great grandfather was Irish and was a furnaceman on their marriage certificate.
When my great grandfather returned from the Royal Navy he became a miner and died young of TB.

I doubt she would have had enough money to travel to Scotland for example to meet him but I don’t really have any idea of how their finances would have been while he was in the Navy.