Wishaw Relief Church Records

[goldnplomp]

Hello,

Thank you again for all the information you have uncovered.  Andrew Halliday GOLD b.1841 d.1900 was the first born son of George GOLD and Mary HALLIDAY.  Andrew married Alice Quin b.abt 1856 (Ireland) d.1924 in 1886 in Cambusnethan. 

Robert GOLD b.1850 d.1922 (Brother of the above Andrew Halliday GOLD) married Margaret ALLAN b.1855 d.1899 in 1874.   After the death of Margaret ALLAN, Robert moved to Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada where his son Willian Allan GOLD was at the time.  Robert GOLD passed away in 1922 (Winnipeg, MB).  William Allan GOLD eventually moved to Vancouver, BC Canada.

Thank you again for sharing all this information.

Art

[ginger10]

Hello

Thank you ALL for all the great Gold Family research and information, very much appreciated, Lodger, Goldnplomp, Rosinish and all..

It does seem that the unknown death noted on post #6 is Andrew Halliday Gold b.1841 d.1900 but interestingly he is buried with his 1st cousins family, maybe it was economical as he died a pauper due to chronic bad health issues. But also there seems to be no headstone inscription noted in the churchyard for his father (who died some 42 years earlier) George Gold b.1814 d.1858, or his mother Mary Halliday.  It seems its still a mystery where they were both laid to rest..

Also noting, Andrew H Gold 2nd wife was Alice Quin b.1851 ( baptized Oct 5, 1851 Desertcreight, Cookstown, N. Ireland), she died in Garngardhill, Glasgow in 1924. Andrew H's 1st wife was Janet Smith b.1841 d.1877 she was born in Bothwell, and died in Carluke.

I understand his father George Gold died in Cambusnethan, and i do not have proof but Mary Halliday maybe died on Feb 21 1853 possibly in Newmains !

George Gold married a 2nd time after Mary Halliday's passing to Susan/Susanna/ or Shusan Douglas (who was also prev married to Robert Gray) she also died in Cambusnethan in 1904.

Maybe the above helps this discussion a little further.

Graham.

[ard]

As amazing as ever, Lodger and the Rootschat team! In relation to the Hallidays, I have a little puzzle on my hands. I have already been helped enormously with my related Hallidays on this site but I don't know if I have asked for this one (if I have, forgive me!)

My ancestor was Robert Halliday, married (probably at Crawford) to Margaret Williamson (b.Crawford -1859, Chapel buried Carluke?) and likely brother to Archibald who married Marion Penman.

Robert and Margaret had fewer children, one of which was my direct ancestor John (1804, Crawford-1853, M. Elizabeth Blair Dick 1807-1875). They also had daughters Janet (1806,Crawford -?) and Violet (C1818,?-1839 Chapel, buried Carluke). I figure they must have had other children between 1806-1818 but perhaps they simply didn't survive.

I have that a "Robert Hallowday" husband of Marion (Margaret?) Williamson, Buried 4 March aged 69 years. "Hallowday" seems to be an unusual spelling of the name but I figure this must be my ancestor Robert Halliday. (Margaret was widowed by 1851) Interestingly the same year (1856) there is another Robert Hallowday age 44 (b about 1807) buried 25/03/1851 629/30 435 Carluke ... Both with the same spelling seems more than coincidental! I have been wondering if he might have also been a child of Robert and Margaret. There is a certain continuity of place since later Halliday descendants appear to have been buried in the New Cambusnethan cemetery.

My question,is there anything in the available records that might shed some like on this little conundrum?

Ever grateful (!)

Ard

PS As far as I know, they were for the most part connected to the Relief Church as well....
PPS note: beyond what has already been revealed by: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=566572.117 ...in case there have been new discoveries? ;-)

[Lodger]

A couple more burials!

GEORGE GOLD, Wishaw, aged 2 years.
Parents - Robert Gold & Margaret Allan.
Interred in the old churchyard, 29th March 1876.

ANDREW GOLD, Wishaw, aged 15 months.
Parents - Andrew Gold & Alice Queen.
Interred in Public Ground, 20th April 1881.

Also, Susan Douglas, aged 84 years,  was interred in the old churchyard on 30th July 1904.
The plot was owned by Susan and, as well as her, there are (from when records began) 6 other occupants, all with the surname Wilson.

There is a stone at this plot and the inscription reads -

"Erected by Susan Douglas in memory of her husband Robert Gray who died 2nd August 1854 aged 35 years. Also her brother Alexander who died 5th August 1854 aged 28 years. Sarah Dobson, widow of Joseph Gray, died 3rd August 1854 aged 76 years".

Looks like she lost her husband, her brother and probably her mother-in-law, all within 4 days. Cholera was the killer in 1854, no vaccines in those days!

So, I would imagine that Susan could have buried her 2nd husband in this plot too. It's a great pity the records for 1900 haven't survived and I still think the nameless person in the Gold family plot in 1900 could very well be a still birth.

Ard.

Archibald Halliday & Marion Penman are my nephews' 5 x gt-grandparents. Archibald died at Crossford (Lanarkshire) October 1840 and is buried at Carluke, Marion died at Morningside, Cambusnethan in 1862. They also had a daughter named Violet, born about 1833 in Carluke parish, she married George Brownlie and she died in Hartwood Asylum 1907.
I have no idea who Archibald's parents were, my guess is he was born about 1786 but don't know where. Marion Penman was born 1791 at Crawfordjohn.

Could Archie and Robert's brother have been Thomas Halliday who was married to Marion Brownlie? There is an old lair at Cambusnethan and that couple have a child buried in it, Robert, aged 18 months, died 1840.

[ginger10]

Hi Lodger

Thank you for the your Susan Douglas updates; The local Cholera epidemic seems to have been devastating to the family. But It does seems logical that Susan 2nd husband George Gold is buried in the same plot (unless someone maybe knows differently ?),

The burial location of his 1st wife Mary Halliday b.1815 d. maybe 1853 ... we still don't know! (but i'm currently checking-out the book of local Monumental inscriptions - by Sheila Scott for possible leads on that..)

I looked up the death certificate for Andrew Halliday Gold d.1900, and he died on Feb 19, 1900, so it doesn't match with the inscription for the unnamed  - - - - -  GOLD, no age given. 4th August 1900.

Maybe it is a still born?

But if it was a child (stillborn) on that family line - buried with Catherine, Andrew and John; as unnamed.  i.e. Andrew Gold and Catherine Oman children or family:

In my opinion there are 2 possibilities to the possible unnamed birth, not recorded/registered:
Nathaniel (before he emigrated to Australia, or David Just Gold.. but it doesn't seem likely either had a stillborn child in 1900, or a match for anyone in that families line!

The family history jig-saw is a little difficult to figure out sometime! Keep search for the answers  Bye for now..

Cheers
Graham

[Lodger]

Hi Graham,

Sheila Scott's excellent work only covers parishes in the Upper Ward of Lanarkshire and Cambusnethan does not fall into that category. Mary's parents did have a lair in Carluke churchyard (with a stone erected in 1829) but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that Mary is buried there?
If she died at Newmains then the logical place for her would be with her husband's family in Cambusnethan churchyard. 

Well done on checking the 1900 death certificate, I'm sure the entry in the burial register denotes a still birth. It's how they are often entered and there is, as you say, no other corresponding death for that date.
There are a few branches of the Gold family in that very large plot, it may be a cousin, or some girl's illegitimate child.

[goldnplomp]

So many facts to cross reference… it will take me a while to comb through everything.

Here are a few items that stood out upon initial review…

Susan DOUGLAS b. 1823 d.1904 had three husbands.  Hugh CLARKSON m. 1838;  Robert David GRAY m. 1840; George GOLD m.1856.

There are a number of cases where multiple family members married into same families which I'm sure causes much confusion.  For example:

Andrew GOLD b.1812 d.1844 married Isabella MORTON b. abt1813 d.1840 and then Andrew’s sister Elizabeth GOLD b.1816 d.1886 married William MORTON b.1807 d.1864.   Isabella MORTON and William MORTON were siblings.   This is why there is so much cross over between the GOLD’s and MORTON’s.

Then there was George GOLD b.1846 d.1918 who married Christina ALLAN b.1851 d.1903 and then George’s bother Robert GOLD b.1850 d.1922 married Margaret ALLAN b.1855 d.1899.   Margaret ALLAN was Christina ALLAN’s niece.  This is why there is so much cross over between the GOLD’s and ALLAN’s.

Then to confuse things even further, Archibald GOLD b.1843 d.1906 married Elizabeth RUSSELL b.1848 d.? and then Archibald’s brother John GOLD b.1853 d.1885 married Henrietta RUSSELL b.1852 d.abt1925.  Elizabeth and Henrietta were siblings. 

It is insane how intertwined the families of Cambusnethan are.  In fact, I discovered that my wife also has family which originate from Cambusnethan and “Yes” my wife and I are related through the marriage of Andrew Clarkson GOLD b. 1892 d.? and Elizabeth CUMMING b.1890 d.1961.

Thank you again for everyone’s insights.

Art

[Lodger]

Hi Art,

That information was very interesting and it explains why half the population of Cambusnethan parish had 11 fingers and webbed feet   

I had another trawl through the burial records and found 2 more children.

ANDREW GOLD MILLAR, Muirkirk, aged 9 months.
Parents - John Millar & Rebecca Muir.
Interred in the old churchyard on 26th June 1880.

This corresponds to the entry in the Gold plot book and the interesting thing is the abode. Muirkirk is a village in Ayrshire. A long way to bring a body in those days, although it may have been done by rail, Muirkirk was a mining village and where there was coal there were trains.

Also -
ANDREW GOLD, Wishaw, aged 15 months.
Parents - Andrew Gold & Alice Queen.
Interred in Common Ground, 20th April 1881.

So, this is the second of Andrew & Alice's children that was buried in common (paupers) ground.
Yet another child was brought all the way from Muirkirk to be put in the family plot but 2 children who lived locally were buried with strangers. This, to me, would suggest that Andrew was not in control of the access to the Gold plot and if he wasn't allowed to put his children there, why would he himself be put there?

Going through the records I noticed that a great many of the Gold's lived in the village of Waterloo, I think they all must be connected in some way. I made a list -

John Gold & Janet Kerr, Waterloo, new born child died 1865, also 2 sons, both Andrew, 1873 & 1874.

Moses Fry & Helen Gold, Waterloo, baby died 1867.

Charles Orr & Margaret Gold, Waterloo, baby died 1870.

Andrew Gold & Roseann Armstrong, Ashgillhead (near Waterloo) baby died 1874.

John Gold & Mary Roberts, Waterloo, child James died 1876.

Thomas Gold & Agnes Blackley, Waterloo, child died 1877.

Also -

John Gold & Lillias Clarkson buried 4 sons in 1877, all killed in the awful Blantyre mining disaster.
James aged 33, John aged 28, Benjamin aged 24 and Andrew aged 22. (All but Andrew were married).

John Morton & Agnes Gold had several babies interred in the old churchyard 1860's & 70's.

George Gold & Janet Lawson, still born child 1907.

Andrew Gold died aged 45 years in 1865, parents Andrew Gold & Grace Clarkson.

John Gold & Jane (or Janet) Clarkson had daughter Helen died aged 32 years in 1871. Also son Andrew, a spirit merchant died aged 30 in 1881 and son John died aged 66 in 1899.

John Rae & Helen Gold, child John G. died 1878.

George Wright & Lillias Gold, child died 1881 & son James G. died 1882.

Daniel McFarlane & Margaret Gold, baby died 1866.

That's a lot of Gold's!

[goldnplomp]

Lot’s of Gold’s indeed!  I have yet to piece them all together.  You did uncover a couple ‘Gems’ though.

I did not have record of Andrew Gold MILLAR, Muirkirk, aged 9 months.   John MILLAR b.1843 d.1879 and Rebecca Kilpatrick Muir b.1847 d.1886 both passed away in Ayrshire; however, all of the children I had record of (outside of the above Andrew) were born in Carluke, Lanarkshire.

I also did not have record of the 1907 still born child of George Gold & Janet Lawson.

Of the Waterloo Gold’s you referenced, only Thomas Halliday GOLD & Agnes French BLACKLEY fall within my family branch.  Thomas and Agnes are my paternal Great Grandparents. 

I have traced back all of the other Gold lines you referenced and they all converge on Douglas, Lanarkshire (including mine).   While I am 99.9% sure these Gold lines are all somehow related, I am not able to connect the other Douglas, Lanarkshire Gold’s to my Andrew GOLD and Elizabeth WEIR b. abt 17449 d.1823 as any connection pre-dates 1750’s.  Perhaps one Day I will have a DNA match with one of these distant Gold branches which will allow me to piece together this puzzle.

Thank you again for your time and the abundance of information.

Art