Seeking Info On James Dalgarno Who Married Margaret Ramsay @ Old Deer 24/09/1784

[Alan of Kaslo]

Here's some of the spelling variations I've found so far:

DALGARNO , DELGARNO , DALGAIRDEN , DALGALMO , DALGAIRN , DALGAIRNS, DALGAIRNE, DALGAIRNO , DALGAIRNER , DALGARDDO , DALGARDEN , DALGARDENS , DALGARDIN, DALGARDINE , DALGARDN , DALGARDNER , DALGARDNO , DALGARDNOE , DALGARNE , DALGARN , DALGARNER , DALGARNIE ,DALGARNOE , DALGARNOT, DALGARNS , DALGARRDNO

[Alan of Kaslo]

I meant to post James D 1757's birth doc. It has a bunch of clues ... but I'm not 100% certain that is my James D sr.

DALGARNO JAMES
JOHN DALGARNO/MARGARET SANGSTER
M
08/11/1757
228/
10 88
Old Deer

This John Dalgarno is from Clochan...

"CLOCHCAN - This name applies to a district containing several small crofts, it is situated a little north of Brown Hill."

"CLOCHCAN MOSS - Applies to a small peat moss for the use of the people of Annochie only; it is attached to the Clochcan Moss; and situated about 2 Miles South West of the Village of Stuartfield."


I also just noticed the 1801 marriage of James D to Helen Hay was in Lonmay ...

HAY
   
HELEN
   
JA. DALGARDEN/  FR384 (FR384)
15/10/1801
219/
20 268
Lonmay

... and this local thread that speaks of the above marriage saying that James D was a shoemaker and not a blacksmith  (apologies if you already mentioned this earlier)

You said:

If, for instance, Helen Hay's husband was a shoemaker, that would be fairly strong evidence against him being Margaret Ramsay's widower, who was a blacksmith.

Local thread said:

I think that may be the wrong Joseph Dalgarno - the Joseph Dalgarno who was married to Anna Robertson died in 1880 in Fraserburgh - his parents are noted as James Dalgarno, shoemaker and Helen Hay.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764025.msg6186011#msg6186011

[Forfarian]

Clochcan still exists
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ9443
and it shows on the old map as a moss with a farm and several crofts nearby
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.48237&lon=-2.09484&layers=5&b=1

That is spooky about Helen Hay's James D being a shoemaker. I honestly didn't know at all, and was just guessing - hadn't remembered that other thread. But I think it does rule out Helen Hay being the second wife of Margaret Ramsay's husband.

[Forfarian]

Here's some of the spelling variations I've found so far:

DALGARNO , DELGARNO , DALGAIRDEN , DALGALMO , DALGAIRN , DALGAIRNS, DALGAIRNE, DALGAIRNO , DALGAIRNER , DALGARDDO , DALGARDEN , DALGARDENS , DALGARDIN, DALGARDINE , DALGARDN , DALGARDNER , DALGARDNO , DALGARDNOE , DALGARNE , DALGARN , DALGARNER , DALGARNIE ,DALGARNOE , DALGARNOT, DALGARNS , DALGARRDNO

.... Dulgarne, Dillgarne, Dilgarno, Dilgarn, Dilgardyne, Dilgardno, Dilgarden, Dilgairne, Delgarno, Delgarden.

Search for d*l*g*r*n* in future!

[Forfarian]

I see there are baptisms of two children to Andrew Dalgarno and Janet Davidson in Old Deer who must be contemporary with your James D and Margaret Ramsay
Sylvester 1757
Christen 1759
Wonder if this Andrew is perhaps James' brother? 

Burntbrae is just north of Clochcan
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.48948&lon=-2.09368&layers=5&b=1

PS Is that Kaslo on Kootenay Lake? I've been across the lake on the ferry but we headed west not north. 

[Alan of Kaslo]

Search for d*l*g*r*n* in future!

Thanks for that.. always looking for new ways to search.

Wonder if this Andrew is perhaps James' brother? 

I think he might be. John Sangster could be an Uncle or even James's Grandfather.

In Old Deer having kids at the time there was:

John D and Margaret Sangster
William D and Margaret Davidson
Andrew D and Jannet Davidson

PS Is that Kaslo on Kootenay Lake? I've been across the lake on the ferry but we headed west not north

Yes!  Still the worlds longest free ferry ride!  We like to call her Loch Kootenay. Reminds us daily of Scotland.

Thanks again.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Love your signature by the way!  So true. Proof of that right here in this thread. No matter how well organized and written a tree or family history is ... that does not equate to having the correct people listed.

I'm even questioning now how I deduced that James D's parents are John D and Margaret Sangster. Did I see it on ancestry? MH? Did I just guess because its the only James D birth in Old Deer around the time?  Now I can't even remember.

All I know is I got as far as documents showing James D jr's parents are James D and Margaret Ramsay. The rest it would seem is pure speculation. I did have a DNA test and I can look up names of possible relations... such as Sangster. It says i'm related to 2 people with that surname (one a woman which could be through marriage) and quite a few come up when I search for people with Sangster somewhere in their tree... I'm not sure what if anything that means though. I don't know if that means I'm related to Margaret Sangster. 

I do have some confirmed DNA relatives via the Dalgarno side of my family. It says that we are related through James D jr and Sophia Crookshanks... they do have Sangster and Ramsay in their trees (that I can't see as after a year I let my subscription slip so can't see trees or message).

I need to rewind to James Dalgarno 1787 ... the last person I have documents for and somehow trace his father James and find his proper birth info.

The quest continues...

Might have to bite the bullet and get a one month sub , find the best people to contact and write them to see if they have proof of parentage for James Dalgarno and Margaret Ramsay.

[Alan of Kaslo]

I forgot that I had this document and I also forgot about James's sister May Dalgarno... Does this mean that James D sr. was born in Earlseat  Cruden ...or just that he was last living there before that time. The birth itself is in Old Deer.

Some good clues and obscure old-time place names in that doc.

Earlseat
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.43608&lon=-1.96224&layers=5&b=1

Skelmuir
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=13&lat=57.43366&lon=-1.94404&layers=5&b=1

[Forfarian]

Interesting.

I think it means that at the time of those births James D and Margaret R were living at Earlseat in the parish of Cruden, so presumably that's where May and James were actually born. Later on, back in Old Deer, they finally got round to having the baptisms recorded in the parish register there. (This isn't unusual, because for a few years either side of 1790 there was a fee for having a baptism recorded, which put a lot of people off doing so.)

Incidentally, pay attention to the words 'of', 'in' and 'at' in older Scottish records.

'Of' specifically implies that the person so described owned the property, or was a member of the family who owned it.
'In' implies that the person(s) so described were living there on a settled basis.
'At' implies short-term residence, for example a hired hand or someone just visiting.

It would probably be worth investigating John Dalgarno in Skelmuir - a brother, perhaps?