Merchant Navy

[seaweed]

mmm,
The EMMA ALEXANDER was a US registered ship in the  beginning of 1941. She was sold to MOWT in late 1941 and registered in London UK in early Jan 1942. Only UK and Empire Ships have a  British official number. My guess is Official numbers were not priority in 1942 so a certain amount of confusion is understandable. She was renamed EMPIRE WOODLARK and was scuttled, loaded with chemicals and ammunition in 1946.

[HMac]

I agree seaweed. On the CR2 card for 1941 she is shown with provl underneath her name - meaning she had not yet been allocated her number.
Regards
Hugh

[MUMMYG]

Ah that's what it says, provisional, thanks for that.  I have since come across the Emma Alexander with the ON 168249 but not on an official document only in history websites.

So to backtrack a moment, am I right in thinking that he is declaring that he has no record of service in the name of Hill because his name was previously given as Gill?

And so he is reporting to the local shipping office after discharge from Duchess but cant add to his record of service for that reason so they give him this CR1 right?


Also what was meant by "Make a note JIC"

[MUMMYG]

I got the medal list, he got 1939 star, Atlantic star and War Medal, refused the Pacific and the Africa Star medals with ribbons awarded for the first two

[HMac]

I have since come across the Emma Alexander with the ON 168249 but not on an official document only in history websites.

Yes, that number is correct only it wasn't allocated until after 1941. It appears he joins DUTCHESS OF BEDFORD 7.5.1941 unknown and leaves her on 14.7.1942. There appear to be crew agreements only for 1944/5/6 unless earlier agreements are filed with 1944.

So to backtrack a moment, am I right in thinking that he is declaring that he has no record of service in the name of Hill because his name was previously given as Gill?

Name previously given or recorded incorrectly as Gill.

And so he is reporting to the local shipping office after discharge from Duchess but cant add to his record of service for that reason so they give him this CR1 right?

Not quite.
He reports to the MMO but is not in possession of his Continuous Certificate of Discharge i.e. his discharge book so it is noted on his CR1 card. They don't give him the CR1 card that is for the MMO. The CR1 card is usually filled in when making changes to or applying for a new book. Records held in the Fourth Register of Seamen are not complete so it is difficult to see the whole picture.

Also what was meant by "Make a note JIC"

If I follow seaweed correctly he is asking you to make a note of that number [just in case]
I made an assuption earlier that the number was a ref no. for a RG file. My eyes may or may not have decieved me here and it could be a discharge number as stated by seaweed. In anycase, if he was known as Gill and not Hill, he would have been given another discharge number which should have been been cancelled once his name was corrected.
Regards
Hugh

[MUMMYG]

Ok lovely, thanks for that clarification. 

I will now attempt to find his CRS10 at the TNA under Hill as he might have carried on at sea after 42 (also I'm missing a big chunk between records 1920-1940.) and there seems to be a batch that was transferred to the fifth register that carried on at sea.

This man is the father of Sidney Hill who was lost off the SS Samwater (see my webpage below in my signature)

[HMac]

The CRS 10 for Joseph Hill should be held at TNA in piece BT 382/786 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10989011

If he was using Joseph Gill maybe check out BT 382/648 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10988873

You cannot obtain them online though as they are held in block surname order of up to 60 other names. Best obtained by a vist to the archives or a researcher.

I did notice the website in your signature [nice work] you must have done that a while ago as I note you credit the Mercantile Marine Forum which seaweed and I both worked on back in the day - happy days!

Regards
Hugh

[seaweed]

Ah that's what it says, provisional, thanks for that.  I have since come across the Emma Alexander with the ON 168249 but not on an official document only in history websites.
 That's the problem with the internet. People do not research thoroughly. Find a so called fact and then the missinformation is repeated by other "lazy"researchers into perpetuity.

So to backtrack a moment, am I right in thinking that he is declaring that he has no record of service in the name of Hill because his name was previously given as Gill?
Your Guess is as good as mine.
Did a little more mooching on this one (Not being a Lazy researcher, TIC!) Took a look at her Voyage Record Card.
Forget names for the minute. It can get confusing.
The vessel in question, as already stated was purchased by MOWT in late 1941. She was fitting out for trooping in the USA. She was expected to be ready between 5-15 October 1941. She sailed from SAN FRANCISCO 24/10/1941
Arrived HALIFAX N/S via L/A, and PANAMA 15/11/1941
Sailed HALIFAX 21/11 Arrived Liverpool 06/12/1941
Her name was changed to EMPIRE WOODLARK 07/01/1942
Sailed LIVERPOOL 10/01/1942 As part of convoy WS15.
She did not return to a UK port until May 1945

My guess is your man (Wether Hill or Gill) served  on her delivery voyage, Maybe from S/F but more likely HALIFAX N/S.Her Crew Agreements should confirm.
Although technically still a US registered ship, the Crew Agreement for her delivery voyage should be with her Logbooks and Crew Agreements for the period which should be stored with her 1945 Logbook. I think her 1944 L/B is maybe wrongly catalogued but needs to be checked JIC. L/B's and C/A's are only stored by the date when the vessel returned to a UK port.

And so he is reporting to the local shipping office after discharge from Duchess of Bedford but cant add to his record of service for that reason so they give him this CR1 right?
Again your guess is as good as mine but a fair assumption

Also what was meant by "Make a note JIC" "Just In Case" You never know!
PS TIC = Tongue in Cheek!

[MUMMYG]

 
Well thanks very much for all your kind help, it sends me googley eyed this stuff, round and round in circles to nowhere. I will follow all your hints anon.

Yes it was a while ago I made that site (it was under virgin media free sites so that might give you a clue)I did it for one fathers day because they are my dads family, he remembers them all fondly and often tells us stories about these wonderful brave adventurous men. Joseph had another son Stanley who was MN then transfered to Royal Marines I think.