1865 marriage at St. Mark's Church, Nottingham

[Milliepede]

If all else fails you can always order a copy of the marriage certificate.

I see there were two Bramman/Booker birth registrations before 1871 which I'm sure you know about.  Alice 1867 & Richard Henry 1866.

[Penholder]

Yes, thank you.

[softly softly]

Penholder, is this the man you are trying to find out who  his parents are


1861 uk census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7D8-98X

1870 us census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ5D-DBT


1880 us census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWV9-H1B

John

[Penholder]

Hi johnhood

Yes, he's the man.

[softly softly]

The reason for asking is that in 1870 Alice is recorded as being born in the usa but in 1880 born England. Was Alice's birth registration in Birmingham in 1867 ??

John

[softly softly]

Is this Samuel and Mary grave.

https://billiongraves.com/grave/Samuel-Bramman/30501332

John

[Penholder]

Yes, Alice was born in Birmingham and so was her brother Richard Henry.   He died in 1867 before the family emigrated.

Mary and her son Samuel (born 1879) seem to have visited England in 1881 as I can see that they returned to the US via New York in 1881.   Mary gave birth to Charles Henry BRAMMAN in Nottingham in Q3 1885.   The 1900 US Federal Census shows him with the family in America and says he immigrated there in 1887.

I had never imagined people did that much travelling in those days.   it's ironic I can find out so much about them but can't find Samuel's baptism or birth registration.   

I know I can get a marriage certificate but would prefer not to have the expense as they're not my direct line.   On the other hand, knowing the identity of Samuel's father might help break down a brick wall.

Diana

PS.   The grave is the right one.

[softly softly]

Diana, I'm only posting this as a last minuet offering as I'm flying to Canada early tomorrow. You say the Samuel James who married Matilda you know about, he was born c1816 and died 1894, his occupation a lace maker.
I found this 1851 census ref 2130 188 12 for a John Bramman with wife and children, one of whom is a Samuel James Bramman born dq 1839 mmn King. Do not have time to further research but the other children are

John Bramman dq 1837 mmn King
Samuel James Bramman dq 1839 mmn King
Eliza Hollingworth FRANCIS jq 1840 mmn Hollingworth
Elizabeth Billings Bramman sq 1843 mmn King
Lettice Parker Bramman jq 1851 mmn Hollingworth

John

[Penholder]

Samuel James BRAMMAN was the half brother of my great grandmother.   He was born in 1839, parents John BRAMMAN & Senna KING, and married Matilda Ann HINDLEY.   Senna died and John BRAMMAN acquired a second 'wife' Eliza HOLLINGWORTH, who is my 2 x great grandmother.  That is the family you found in 1851 and I have them all documented. The spelling of the surname varied and was sometimes recorded as BRAMMER.    For instance I found Samuel and Matilda as James & Matilda BRAMMER in 1861.   I know they're the right people because the children tally with their birth registrations.

The Samuel BRAMMAN I'm interested in is a different person.   My brother and I both have 4th - 6th cousin matches with one of his descendants in America.   If I can establish the identity of his father I hope to be a step closer to confirming that my paper trail is correct.   The father of this Samuel BRAMMAN will most likely be the brother or cousin of John BRAMMAN above.

I think the easiest thing will be to order the marriage certificate.   Thank you very much for your interest and help and have a great time in Canada.

Diana