William Scott - Sailor

[nepean]

Hello Callum
Your reply caught my attention when you mentioned having the Family Bible for James Brown and Ann Anderson. I have tried to find the vital info for both of these ancestors of my husband and gave up when the Browns entered the genealogy picture again. I had already done a pedigree for David Brown, fisherman, in Kilrenny/Cellardyke where he drowned in the harbour in 1771. Most of that family's line had connections to the fishing community in the East Neuk. The fishing Browns make a few appearances in Harry Watson's book on Kilrenny and Cellardyke.

So James Brown, taylor, didn't fit  and without some vital records I had no idea where to start a good search for the births of James or Ann.  The family of James Brown and Ann Anderson were born in Anstruther Easter. James and Ann married  in Canongate, Edinburgh in May 1796 and had 8 children, all born in Anstruther.  Two of the sons followed in their father's footsteps and became tailors.

With the consistent lack of deaths/burials in the Anstruther Easter opr it is difficult to find the deaths/burials with any degree of confidence for either James Brown or Ann Anderson. But the census records for 1841 and 1851 show that Ann died in that 10 year period. Her husband James was in the 1851 census with a bachelor son, tailor, and since he is not in the death records at Scotland's People after 1855 James must have died between the 1851 census and 1855.  Ann Anderson might be the Ann who was buried in Nov 1841 .... Anstruther Easter opr, death:
Ann ANDERSON, aged 64 years, daughter of Andrew ANDERSON, Kilrenny, was buried 30th Nov 1841....    and James was likely the James who was buried in Apr 1852 in Anstruther Easter, from the Lair Register in the Fife Death Index.... but no age of death for James.

If the Family Bible has vitals and parents for these two people I would very much appreciate having them passed on to me. Then I can start doing another Brown pedigree search!

To the best of my knowledge I know of no genealogical connection between Lumsden the clock- maker and the Scott/Rennie family that we are researching. But in the East Neuk anything is possible.... which makes genealogy fun.

Where do you live? I am in Ontario, Canada where my husband's parents were home children from the UK. His father was an orphan in Cellardyke.

nepean

[Forfarian]

Ann Anderson might be the Ann who was buried in Nov 1841 .... Anstruther Easter opr, death:
Ann ANDERSON, aged 64 years, daughter of Andrew ANDERSON, Kilrenny, was buried 30th Nov 1841....   

If this was the wife of James Brown, it seems a bit odd that the record would name her father and not mention her husband?

There was no Andrew among the children of James B and Ann A: Mary, Robert, James, Thomas, Janet, Janet, John, and William.

If they followed the naming tradition you would expect his parents' given names to be Robert and Janet and hers to be James and Mary.

[hdw]

James Brown tailor and Ann Anderson, daughter of Andrew Anderson, teacher in Denoonie, i.e. Dunino, were married in 1796. It looks like she may have been the Ann born in 1779 at Kingsbarns to Andrew Anderson and Mary Wilson. Andrew Anderson in the parish of St. Andrews and Mary Wilson in this parish were married at Kingsbarns in 1770. There was certainly a school at Dunino because my distant relative William Tennant the poet and scholar taught there for a while before getting his professorship at St. Andrews university.

The Scottish naming tradition is a useful guide but not everyone followed it. It seems to have been commonest among the fishing population.

Harry

[CG07]

Hi Nepean

I'm afraid the bible only contains births of relatively recent births. The only sign of it belonging to James and Ann was that their names were printed on the inside cover. I'll attach a photo of it, you can see it's a bit worse for wear.

I do wonder what brought them to Edinburgh to get married, fashionable perhaps? I've seen ancestors from East Lothian do the same.

Thanks for providing the information of their deaths. It seems possible that Ann was the one buried in 1841. As Forforian says it is strange that they would use the father's name instead of James Brown's. However, Ann's father was definitely named Andrew as i'm sure you will know Nepean, it states that on their marriage note. I've not been able to confirm who this Andrew would be. My only guess is through birth records, an Andrew Anderson and Mary Wilson had a daughter named Ann in 1779 in Kingsbarns. This would make Ann only just 17 when married, young but not impossible.

Ann's father, Andrew, was described as a teacher in "Denoonie" I had previously posted here asking for a transcription of the marriage note to decipher where Denoonie was. It was concluded that it was most likely Dunino, just North of Anstruther. I've not been able to find any Andrew's around the area that were teachers.

I live in Edinburgh, relatively near to where the Scott's had their Grocer's when the moved from Anstruther.

When the 1921 census recently came out I discovered that my gt gt grandfather, Thomas Scott, was working as a Church Officer, this perhaps explains why he was given the Family Bible. It was short-lived as he was back to being a Grocer by the time of his death in 1928. His wife carried on the shop after that.

[CG07]

More photos

[nepean]

Good morning Callum and others
Thank you for the scans of the family Bible. You must be very pleased to have it, even if the Bible's info is only related to births of Thomas and Margaret (Clouston) Scott's 4 daughters. My experience with family Bibles is not traditional as my mother was the youngest in her family and if there was a surviving Bible it went to an older sibling and no one, today, claims to have it. But my grandmother wrote in her beautiful penmanship the vitals for her 10 siblings and 5 children and that single sheet of paper from a small note-book was accepted as a primary source by the Mayflower Society. So there are Bibles and then there are notebooks.

Re the marriage record for Ann Anderson in Canongate in 1796 in Edinburgh. Yes I too had seen the use of Denoonie and with the agreement of HDWatson had settled on Dunino. But the big problem with this description was that there was no Andrew Anderson, teacher, there at that time. I searched microfilm of all of the surrounding parish records but the only teacher that I found identified was John Anderson, spouse of Janet Pratt,  who had a son Andrew, whose birth was recorded in both Dunino and Kilrenny in 1761, Andrew Anderson was irregularly married in Edinburgh in 1783. Andrew was the s/o John Anderson, teacher in Dunino, and Janet Pratt. John Anderson and Janet Pratt had 5 children and the youngest was Ann Anderson, b Sept 1771 in Dunino.... at least 4 of the 5 children had births recorded in Dunino. Andrew and a sister Wightman were also married in Edinburgh despite a connection to Kilrenny and Dunino.  In Jan 1774 the Dunino opr reported the death of John Anderson, schoolmaster in Dunino. So Ann Anderson was about 2 1/2 when her father died. Did John's eldest child Andrew, b 1761,  take over the care of the 4 youngest children and become the father-figure? Andrew was irregularly married in Edinburgh. Does anyone have an occupation for Andrew Anderson, b 1761?

In the Anstruther Easter 1841 census James Brown and wife Ann were living on Had the Foot Wynd. James was 64 and Ann was 69. They were living with their unmarried son John and 2 of their grandchildren Lillie, 10 and William Scott, 8. Lillie and William were children of William Scott and Mary Brown.
Copied at Register House 1986
1876, district 438, # 56--
Mary (BROWN) SCOTT, died age 79, 25 December 1876, 02:50 a.m., at Cellardyke, widow of William SCOTT, shipmaster and d/o James BROWN, tailor and Ann (ANDERSON) BROWN, both deceased, pleurisy 4 days; informant William SCOTT, Juniper Green, Edinburgh, son, not present.
William Scott, shipmaster, was the original subject of this chat.

nepean

[CG07]

Yes, I'm very pleased to have the bible. It appears to have gone to the eldest child still alive at the time of their parents death until it reached Thomas Scott who was only the fourth eldest of William Scott and Annie Carfrae Rennie's children. After that it went to Thomas' eldest, Emily. She had no children so my grandmother inherited it after she passed. The significance of it was only recently found by myself a few weeks ago when wondering what this old looking book is, opening it and seeing some familiar names inside.

I was looking through the pages last night to see if their were any inscriptions written inside, sadly nothing was found. The only thing I found was a pressed flower that had long since been forgotten about.

I was looking at the virtual volumes on SP of Dunino and have found some entries regarding an Andrew Anderson that may be ours. First seen on December 14th 1795 on page 422 and last seen on June 9th 1799 on page 443. Other pages he was seen inbetween were, 425, 428, 434 and 439. They mostly describe him getting a salary. One entry taken just 10 days before James and Ann married describes him as a Prosecutor (what's that in relation to the church??) and states something about the Schoolmaster, however i'm failing to transcribe it.

I like your theory on Andrew being a brother that turned to a father figure and perhaps is the Andrew I mention above. This matches up closely with the 1841 census which puts Ann's year of birth at 1772.

"Also - to Andrew Anderson
Prosecutor from Jan 2 to June
?. The session in ?
of the ? of the schoolmaster
salary had ? to pay
the prosecutor, when the
schoolmaster ? ?
?

[Forfarian]

Also to Andrew Anderson Precentor from Jany to June 10s. Note. The Session in consideration of the smallness of the schoolmaster's salary had resolved to pay the Precentor when the schoolmaster could not ?sing ?himself.

In Scottish Presbyterian churches where there was no organ or other musical instrument, the precentor led the singing of hymns by singing a line which was then repeated by the congregation, then the next line, which again was repeated by the congregation, and so on. It was usually a salaried position. See https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/dost/precentor

In the Church of England a precentor is rather different, so do not be misled by definitions of the term in relation to the C of E/Anglican/Episcopal churches if you look them up online.

[nepean]

Hi Forfarian
Looks like we both decided to dig into the Dunino kirk session records. That can be very interesting as one follows the stories created by the lives of parish members. I started with the period before the death of John Anderson in Jan 1774 and found that the parish was aware of the distressed condition of the widow, Janet Prat, after her husband's death leaving her with a family of young ones. Janet shows up periodically receiving payments and in one entry the clerk has written that none of the relatives on either side of the family are prepared to contribute so the parish continues. I will continue reading the film and will take notes re dates and comments.

But the big discovery is that you have discovered that Andrew Anderson was indeed a schoolmaster in Dunino. That connects to having Ann Anderson as a daughter of John Anderson, schoolmaster and my theory that Andrew was financing/supporting the family. Maybe the Dunino kirk session records will indicate why Andrew left Dunino.

Andrew Anderson married "irregularly" in Edinburgh in Aug 1783... don't know what parish... and was charged with antenuptial fornication in Aug 1783. Those dates are from the Kilrenny kirk session. Andrew's spouse was a Mary Brown.... another Brown! Andrew and Mary had at least 4 children... Andrew 1783, Robert 1787 (bap St. Cuthberts, Edinburgh), John 1789 (bap St. Cuthberts)
and Wightman 1794 (Leith).

Ann Anderson and Andrew Anderson were children of Archibald Pratt and Jean Vilent.

James Brown and Ann Anderson married at Canongate, Edinburgh in May 1796.

Thank you for joining in the search. A new pair of eyes is always a help.

Nepean