Thomas Bell and Maggie Gawn

[MonicaL]

This looks a good possibility for Norman's marriage:

Norman BELL and Jeanie Muir MCGREGOR
1935
501/ 48
Old or West Kilpatrick

Wife's death:

Jeanie Muir BELL
Age 67
Mother's maiden name ANDERSON
1975
506/ 42
Old Kilpatrick

Monica

[Forfarian]

How much does it cost to view a SP record? I think I will open an account to view some of the records you have all found for me.

GBP £1.50. So it's 25% cheaper than GRONI - and the information is better.

[MonicaL]

Thomas Bell died in 1958 in Old Kilpatrick area. His father was James as we know from his marriage. His mother's name was (Mary/Maria?) Jane Irwin (the source of son Thomas's middle name).

Possible children for them:

James Bell - 4 December 1867 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3W-PQ2K
William Bell - 16 June 1869 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRM5-SWL ...died young with name reused it seems.
Mary Ann Bell - 16 August 1870 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRHZ-MJW
William Bell - 1 June 1872 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FP1C-LLM
Maria Jane Bell - 23 March 1874 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5JT-74W
Rebecca Bell - 26 December 1875 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGYH-4NQ8
Robert Bell - 6 January 1878 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPR7-XXRH
Thomas's birth entry on 1 March 1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP82-5NRH

There may be more or less    You would need to check the original registrations on www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

Parents' marriage on 6 December 1866 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGV8-PSDS

Monica

[rosie17]

How much does it cost to view a SP record? I think I will open an account to view some of the records you have all

I have a record for a Norman Bell aged 42, with wife Jean (aged 43) arriving from Sydney in Feb 1951. The address he was going to was 70 Barne St, Clydebank. So this seems a possibility now and his wife should? be listed on the death


This address was also mentioned on records for Agnes and James Picken

If you register with Scotland's People you can by 30 credits for £7.50 and you can view a record for 6 credits .You will find a lot of information on the Scottish records so money well spent

Rosie

[lmgnz]

Hi Rosie

Thank you. Yes Scotlands People is my next move. I have an idea that I was registered with Scotlands People many years ago (?20 or more) back before they had so many resources so it is about time  I make use of those resources.

According to Ancestry I am 75% Scottish though that includes Antrim. I do not have a single known ancestor born in Scotland, unless you count the J1 haplogroup Graham ancestor from the Scottish borders, who probably was transplanted to Ireland in the 1600s courtesy of King James.

My maternal grandfather was a Livingston and family lore is that they arrived on Ireland from Glasgow c 1800. So together my two grandfathers could account for at least 50% of my "Scottish" DNA. As my maternal grandmother was a Dougherty, I suspect she is the source of my 4% Irish DNA. Presumably also Scottish blood there. My Dougherty's were Presbyterian.

My paternal grandfather was 2 months old when his father died in Antrim in 1897 and my gt grandmother, Mary Graham nee Gawn was living with her maternal uncle and family in Glasgow in  1901. (James Henry whose address in 1917 was 74 Earlspark Avenue, Shawlands. The address is in my grandfathers WW1 diary and he stayed with them while on leave from the NZ Rifle Brigade.)

Actually now that I look again at the addresses in the front of the diary, Mrs Thomas Bell is listed at no 1 Victoria St Clydebank. I will need to look again at my transcriptions of the diary to see if he mentioned visiting the Bell family as I cannot remember seeing their names. . I know he visited a Henry cousin of his mother, Agnes McEwan nee Henry (daughter of William Henry who inherited the Henry farm at Dunsilly Antrim. Next to the Gawn farm). Agnes was newly married and living at Dumbarton.

Agnes Gawn Bell and husband James Perkin appear to have spent much of the 1950s in Trinidad. There were no children listed on the shipping records with them so it is possible they were childless.

The 1939 record for Thomas I Bell, naval architect, had a redacted line beneath his wife Agnes, which could represent a child. If so that child is my best bet so far as the link to my DNA match.

James has so far proven yo be elusive.

Thank you Monica for the list of parents and siblings for Thomas Bell. I see he was born in Strabane, Co Tyrone in 1881.

Cheers

Linda

[lmgnz]

Actually I am a little confused how Thomas's birth record which appears in the 1880 register which was sworn to have been transcribed from the Raphoe register in April 1880, could have been changed to 1881. I know some births can be registered a little late but to register it a year early is a little unusual.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02885/2057349.pdf

[Kiltaglassan]

Actually I am a little confused how Thomas's birth record which appears in the 1880 register which was sworn to have been transcribed from the Raphoe register in April 1880, could have been changed to 1881. I know some births can be registered a little late but to register it a year early is a little unusual.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02885/2057349.pdf

On the birth register, he was registered on the 18th March 1880 and there's no amendment notation. Therefore he was presumably born on 1st March 1880 - Raphoe Reg District.

His birthplace - Drumenon (sic), Taughboyne C.P. which is in Co Donegal.
https://www.townlands.ie/donegal/raphoe-north/taughboyne/st-johnstown/drumenan/

KG

[lmgnz]

Thank you Kiltaglassan. I could not quite read the townland though I have checked out all the townlands of Taughboyne on Griffiths Valuations looking for Colhouns. As you might guess my Dougherty families are from that region and in particular many attended Monreagh Presbyterian Church including the Colhouns of my, also close, DNA matches. My Dougherty gt grandparents are buried at Crossroads Presbyterian Church, Killea.

But back to Glasgow. My grandfather Jack Graham did visit his Aunt Maggie. These are the diary entries for October 4 & 5 in 1918 which would have been his final "draft leave" prior to heading to France. Jack caught measles on the transport ship over to England in January 1918 and with one thing then another it took until Sept/October before he was fit for active service.

FRI   Went out to Aunt Maggie & found Aggie & James down with the flu. Had a good time went round the town with Aunt Maggie.

SAT   Came back from Aunt Maggies in afternoon & met Thomson at station. Seen a big fire in the town that night. Got to Aunties about 10:30 pm.

and on 8th October he wrote to his mother

   My Dear Mother,
            Just a few hurried lines, as I have a lot of writing to do.....Aggie [Jack's cousin in Glasgow] was laid up with the flue & James too, they had just got it the day before I got there... Aggie was able to be up a bit, & I cuddled & kissed her, but it was no good, I could not get the flue again.....Well I have passed the signalling test, & got first class so have the crossed flags now. I suppose you will be wondering when I am going to France now. Well that problem is solved, I am going over on Thursday 10th Oct. We are all ready now even our hair cropped right off & its feeling pretty cold up that way just now, for I generally wore a good crop.......Well I must ring off now as I have a lot of short letters to write before I go across....
            With Best love to all
               From your loving Son
                  Jack

(Jack was a signaller for NZRB headquarters at LeQuesnoy)

[rosie17]

How lucky to have these records from 1918 ..Not been easy to find information on James
It was a lot easier with Agnes and Thomas having a middle name ..My husband's ancestors are also Livingston but they are from the Isle of Seil Argyleshire

Rosie