Author Topic: Devers and German Butchers  (Read 876 times)

Offline rebeccareardon

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Devers and German Butchers
« on: Thursday 30 December 21 07:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi All

I have ancestors from Germany who were all butchers.

** Heinrich Devers (alt Henry, Davars, Dabers, Daevers, Daebers) - born c1790 died c1851 - Kingdom of Hanover
** son Christian Devers  (alt Hermann Christian) born c1820 Salzgitter and died 1898 Rutherglen Aust - emigrated to Australia 1858
** son Christian Devers - born 1851 Salzgitter (maybe Kneidstedt Village) and died 1924 Aust - emigrated to Australai on "Marpesia" in 1870 aged 16 (there is a german record that says he was born 1856 but he says in his naturalisation papers he was born 1851)

I am very interested in the training of german butchers had to do, where I could get records such as any Wanderpasses. Also I have a theory that Christian b1851 did not emigrate with his parents as he was already doing a butcher apprenticeship and maybe left before he did journeyman part of his training.

CAn anyone provide some good links of information and/or point me in the direction of records.

Thanks
Bec




Offline Karen McDonald

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 02 January 22 15:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Bec,

I live a few minutes from Salzgitter.  :)

There is not a village named Kneidstedt. Do you have a document where this is shown? If we could determine the name of the village, I might be able to help you further. It could just be that the handwriting is difficult to decipher and it says something else.  ;)

Best regards,
Karen
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Offline manukarik

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 02 January 22 15:58 GMT (UK) »
rebeccareardon

Is this the transcribed entry you were referring to?

Kurhannover, Kingdom of Hannover, and Province of Hannover, Germany, Lutheran Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, 1643-1887

Name:    Christian Devers
Gender:    männlich (Male)
Spouse:    Wilhelmine Devers
Child:    Hermann Christian Devers
Author:    Evangelische Kirche Dörnten (Kr. Goslar)
City or District:    Dörnten
Parish as it Appears:    Kniestedt

 I see the Parish appears elesewhere as Kniestedt u Vorsalz.

Dörnten is about 24 km from Salzgitter.
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Offline davecapps

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02 January 22 18:46 GMT (UK) »


Offline rebeccareardon

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:04 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all.
So from Davcapps map it seems kniedsted was a parish/nearby village now suburb of salzgitter
I have pieced together a sketch of my ancestors but due to my lack of german, complicated by the fact that the translations just list stuff and I can't distinguish towns and villages from parishes from districts etc. Unfortunately I only had transcribed info, not originals.

Yes Manukarik - I think that is the one. and you have answered my question somewhat in that Kneisedt is a parish  - but see my comment below on SAlzgitter - is Salzgitter part of Dornton District?

I love the help - thank you so so much

1. Heinrich Devers  - born c1790 died c1851 - married Eleonore - maybe at SAlzgitter  - I can't really find any records on this couple, so my information is limited.

2. son Christian Devers born c1820 Salzgitter and died 1898 Rutherglen Aust- married Wilhelmina Fritzer in Germany - emigrated to Australia 1858 - I think they had 3 children in germany - christian b1851 or 1856, Henriette b1854 but died and Alvena b1858  - their births and marriage details are of interest

3. son Christian Devers - b1851 or 1856 - I think  Salzgitter (maybe Kneidstedt Village) and died 1924 Aust - emigrated to Australia on "Marpesia" in 1870 aged 16  - again birth and marriage - but what is particularly confusing me at present is that I can see a record of a Herman Christian as per Manukarik but how does that fit in with Salzgitter which he has on his Australia paperwork - also he is saying in Australia he is born in 1851 but the record is 1856


Bec

Offline rebeccareardon

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dave
Jsut taking a closer look at that Myergaz site. It says Kneistedt is a D.Mit.Rg. What is that?
bec

Offline cockney rebel

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 08:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi

First of all, it is Kniestedt and not Kneistedt.
Just a spelling mistake, but search engines take spelling seriously!

Secondly, just wanted to add that there are several entries -but not overwhelmingly so - for this family on Ancestry within their "Public Family Trees" listings.

Maybe worth comparing to your own tree and/or contacting the owners for more info.

Good Luck
Rebel

Offline davecapps

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 08:02 GMT (UK) »

Offline Karen McDonald

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Re: Devers and German Butchers
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 11:03 GMT (UK) »

 - but see my comment below on SAlzgitter - is Salzgitter part of Dornton District?


No. Salzgitter has a long and complicated history - as does Dörnten (please be careful with spellings!).

Below is a link to a WiKi page which explains Salzgitter's history. There is a lot of text, but it might be interesting for you. Kniestedt no longer exists as a village - it was swallowed up in 1938 during the re-naming/re-organisation of the entire area. The name appears in a few roads, allotments, etc. The only mention Kniestedt gets on this WiKi page is under "Buildings" - apparently there is a nice farmhouse there which is now an old people's home and a music school.  :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salzgitter

There is a good WiKi page for Kniestedt, but it is only in German. Here is a quick 'n dirty translation  ::) of the important bits:

In the Middle Ages, Kniestedt belonged to the Salzgau, which in turn belonged to the bishopric of Hildesheim founded by Louis the Pious in 815. After the reorganisation of the Principality of Hildesheim, Kniestedt belonged to the Liebenburg office from 1330. After the end of the Hildesheim Collegiate Feud, the village fell to the Duchy of Braunschweig-Lüneburg in 1523. In 1643, Hildesheim received most of the former Great Abbey back, including Kniestedt. After the incorporation of the Diocese of Hildesheim by Prussia on 3 August 1802, the High Diocese of Hildesheim - and with it Kniestedt - fell to the Kingdom of Prussia. During Napoleonic rule from 1807 to 1813, Kniestedt belonged to the Kingdom of Westphalia as a commune in the canton of Salzgitter in the district of Goslar in the department of the Oker;   :D the mayor (Maire) of the canton was provided by the von Kniestedt family. From 1815 Kniestedt belonged to the Kingdom of Hanover again. This was annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia in 1866. After the reorganisation of the Prussian Land Order of 6 March 1884, the district of Goslar was formed in 1885 from the town of Goslar and the districts of Liebenburg and Wöltingerode, to which Kniestedt belonged from then on.

From 1937 onwards, large areas were needed as building and settlement land for the expansion of ore mining and the construction of the Reichswerke Hermann Göring. The affected owners had to cede their property and were compensated with replacement land. The Kniestedt estate was also transferred with all its land into the ownership of the Reichswerke; the family of the Count of Münster relocated to Hesse.

As a further consequence of the industrialisation of the region, Kniestedt was integrated into the municipality of Salzgitter(-Bad) on 1 April 1938. On 1 April 1942, the town of Watenstedt-Salzgitter was founded, which was renamed Salzgitter in 1951.


That may explain a bit. Or confuse things even more.  ::) But as for Dörnten:

From the Middle Ages onwards, Dörnten belonged to the Liebenburg office in the Hildesheim diocese. The affiliation to the diocese was interrupted by the Hildesheim Collegiate Feud, when the Liebenburg office fell to Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel with the Quedlinburg recess of 1523. In 1643, the Liebenburg office again came under the rule of the prince-bishop of Hildesheim. After the secularisation of the diocese, it fell to Prussia in 1802, belonged to the Kingdom of Westphalia from 1807 to 1812, then to Hanover until 1866 and then to Prussia again. The village was administered by the Liebenburg district until 1884, then by the Goslar district until the 1940s. In 1942 Dörnten became part of the state of Braunschweig as part of a territorial exchange, and with it the state of Lower Saxony in 1946. On 1 July 1972, Dörnten was incorporated into the municipality of Liebenburg.

So as you can see, the borders and responsible offices changed many, many times.

In a nutshell: Kniestedt no longer exists as a village in its own right; it is part of Salzgitter-Bad.

I would assume (possibly a dangerous thing to do  :o) that the records from back then are held by the offices in Salzgitter, as opposed to Goslar.

All the best,
Karen


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