Family mystery re. Scholastica Seville (married name Randall)

[QueenoftheWest]

As mentioned above, William Seville was the son of William & Frances.

It looks like this William had a sister called Scholastica, who was baptised in 1798 and passed away in 1813 in Bisley, Gloucestershire.

There is a 1745 marriage licence between a William Seville of Bisley, clothier, and Scholastica Hopkins. They had a son, William, born in 1747 in Swindon. I believe this is the William who married Frances (although I have not yet found a marriage).

This means that Scholastica Randall (née Seville/Coxhead) could have been named after her paternal aunt and her father's grandmother. Perhaps the sister, Frances, was named after William's mother Frances?

Queenie 

[annikethierry]

Wow, you have all given me a lots of food for thought - Huge thanks to everyone contributing to this discussion !

Indeed it would make sense as it does give reasons for the naming pattern, and seems like a very strong hypothethis. Still I have some some remaining questions :

If you are right and it was this William Sevill(e), son of William an Frances, he was baptised in 1787, so would have been at least 50 when daughter was born. I guess that's a possibility...
- But if that's the case, why could I find no marriage certificate for him and Rachel Coxhead ?
- Moreover, why did Rachel say she was a Spinster and use her maiden name when marrying Bosetti in 1846 ? Surely if William had died, she might have said "widow" as that would have been less scandalous than having had a child out of wedlock ?
- Also if father William was baptized (christian heritage) and daughter Scholastica was born of his wife, why no trace of her own baptism ? Surely she would have been baptized too ?

Moreover, why would Rachel and Scholastica be alone (no father mentioned) in the 1941 Census, and why would she mention her father as a (presumably not deceased) "Gentleman" when Scholastica got married in 1856 ?
-If he was a clothier and/or had died, this would have been mentioned ?

-Can anyone find a a death certificate for William that would give us extra data ? That would be wonderful.

In the meantime my subscription to Ancestry has run out, so would anyone be kind enough to send me the Census return that was mentioned in a previous message with ref. 1841 Census - reference HO107  719  19  33 ? Or is there another way I could access it ? That would be very helpful.

Thanks again to everyone for their precious contributions and good evening !!
Niki

[softly softly]

1861 census ref 1873 41 10
This record shows a William Seville born c 1797 Durham , retired artist. He is in the household of his son Frederick William Seville “artist”. This Frederick was baptised 1824 in Durham the son of William and Frances. Williams occ artist. William married a Frances bethel 1820 in Manchester

John

[Marmalady]

Here is the 1841 census on FamilySearch (free to view)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVT-5ZT
Rachel & Scholastica were living in Blackfriars, London.
Rachel is listed as a tailoress
(note that in 1841 ages of adults were rounded down to the nearest 5 years)

I would think that Rachel & William were never married -- but William possibly acknowledged Scholastica as his child and might even have had continued contact or supported her throughout her childhood

It might be useful to see if William left a will and if any provision was made for Scholastica

William the clothier from Gloucestershire is far more likely candidate for Scholastica's father than an artist / photographer from Manchester with a well-documented family and career locations

[Marmalady]

As for your other questions:

" But if that's the case, why could I find no marriage certificate for him and Rachel Coxhead ?"
Because they probably did not marry

" Moreover, why did Rachel say she was a Spinster and use her maiden name when marrying Bosetti in 1846 ? Surely if William had died, she might have said "widow" as that would have been less scandalous than having had a child out of wedlock ?"
If she had not married William, then she was a spinster -- and possibly felt the need to be truthful on a legal document even if she had previously used the Seville surname

" Also if father William was baptized (christian heritage) and daughter Scholastica was born of his wife, why no trace of her own baptism ? Surely she would have been baptized too ?"

Scholastica Coxhead and older sister Frances, daughters of Rachel were baptised -- see Answer 3 by Millipede above

[Marmalady]

As mentioned above, William Seville was the son of William & Frances.

It looks like this William had a sister called Scholastica, who was baptised in 1798 and passed away in 1813 in Bisley, Gloucestershire.

There is a 1745 marriage licence between a William Seville of Bisley, clothier, and Scholastica Hopkins. They had a son, William, born in 1747 in Swindon. I believe this is the William who married Frances (although I have not yet found a marriage).

This means that Scholastica Randall (née Seville/Coxhead) could have been named after her paternal aunt and her father's grandmother. Perhaps the sister, Frances, was named after William's mother Frances?

Queenie 

Marriage of William & Frances:
Clutton Somerset 23 Aug 1785 by License
William Seville & Frances Seed
both otp

Children of William & Frances
William bpt 13 May 1787 Chalford Chapel, Bisley Glos
Samuel bn 1791 bapt 30 Jan 1799 Chalford Chapel Bisley Glos
Mary Ann bn 1793 bapt 30 Jan 1799 Chalford Chapel Bisley Glos
Frances bn 1795 bapt 31 July 1798 Bisley Glos
Scholastica bn 1797 bapt 31 July 1798 Bisley Glos

William Sevil of Chalford buried Bisley 23 Sept 1814 age 66

[Capetown]

? Not sure if this helps....  on Familysearch

1851 Census,
St Sepulchre Newgate, Middlesex, England


William SEVEL - birth 1791 - born Gloucestershire England
Unmarried, occupation: Agent

Child: Agnes WARD (birth 1816, London, England) father: William SEVEL, Spouse: John WARD

other: John WARD, Elizabeth MELLS, Nicholas Merthent, Robert Smith, Sebestian Citevars, Gnet Tmerchvy


-----

1861, Census, Lambeth, Surrey, England

William SEVILL - birth 1787, Gloucestershire, England, Widowed

Other: John WARD, Agnes WARD, Elizabeth PALLEY

[annikethierry]

Hello everyone again,

HUGE thanks to everyone who has taken part in this !
You have convinced me that you have indeed found the right father for Scholastica, ie William, son of William and Frances.

Indeed, if they were never married, that answers most of my questions. It appears she was baptized and probably recognized by her father. I guess the only remaining questions are why she called him a Gentleman (but she might have been boasting to her in-laws...) and if anyone has found when/where he died (the one who died in 1814 would have been her grandfather).

Also, on the familysearch page, I can access the data, but not the actual document (Census), so if anyone has access to the picture of the actual document I'd be very interested to see it. For instance, were they related to the "Robert Mann" and teenage boy on the list or were they just living in the same place, etc.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll double check all the data tomorrow and will let you know if I have any other questions. You're a GREAT TEAM !! (sorry for the caps)

Good evening,
Niki

[Milliepede]

I agree the William from Glos is more likely to be the father even if he does turn into a gentleman.
People weren't always completely truthful about fathers names and occupations. 

That's good we now have Rachel and her daughter found in 1841. 

I wonder if this is related 

Baptism 29 Oct 1837
William Seville
Mother Rachel Seville

Can only see a transcription but it was Tillingham Essex

Possible burial 8 May 1839 Tillingham Essex

Sorry no that looks to be someone else forget that Rachel.