Author Topic: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor  (Read 1794 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 02:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

I think Sarah's parents were recorded as THIRSTON and GOLDEN. 

The online index for NSW BDM :

1850  Marriages
Volume 36B, line 214.
I note that Volumes 1-44 are Church of England and that Vol 36B covers both marriages and burials.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/births-deaths-and-marriages-registers-1787-1856

Here is my transcription of that marriage.

Married by banns, 21 October 1850,  St James C of E, Sydney NSW
John THIRSTON a bachelor of the parish,  and Mary Ann GOLDEN a spinster of this parish. Witnesses Henry Wilkinson of Windmill Street and Anna Wilkinson of Windmill Street.  Mary Ann, Henry and Anna signed using their C marks.  Ceremony by Rev. Charles F D PRIDDLE.   


I have carefully typed THIRSTON and GOLDEN and rechecked my spelling.  Yes, that is how I recorded that information back in the 1980s.

http://anglicanhistory.org/aus/cci/index.pdf  - a good source of info on C of E clergy  :) - yes, seems to be on a circuit out of Bega.    Here is an interesting snippet to support the circuit notion.  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110318249  Bega Gaz 28 March 1868. 
... Church of England - Rev JL Knight MA will (d.v.) officiate tomorrow in Bega at 11 am Kamaruka 2 pm ... sermon on the attempted assassination of the Prince. (in Sydney on 12 March 1868)   

I think Sarah's son was known as John William THICKNESSE - see his 78 page AIF record for WWI service freely available at the National Archives of Australia website :  naa.gov.au

Here's a sad instance of two young lads found in Pambula (so in the 'local area')  sent off to the Vernon back in 1868.   https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/251749090/27959050  NSW Police Gaz 22 Jan 1868.  Notice the spelling of the surname...  is it possible these lads could be brothers for Sarah? - Perhaps their births were recorded as THURSTON and registered Eden.  If so, an official transcription of the 1863 birth should include some clues about his older siblings possibly their names and ages, but at least their gender, as well as information about both parents in far greater detail than on Sarah's baptism record.   NSW bdm 7455/1863. 

Here is a list of farmers/graziers and others from circa 1868 at Kamaruka in the Eden electorate, - yes there was a very large land holding but there was also the village and the larger district, not just the Tooth holding noted here : https://www.aussietowns.com.au/town/kameruka-nsw
Anyways, here's that list from circa 1868 - some of these men were breeding dairy cattle, but some were definitely sheep farmers.

H Argles
W Barrington
H Brooks
J Clarke
T Dawson
J Doyle
E Gates
WJ Lane
J Marlow
J O'Brien
W Read
J Salomon
T Taylor
WW White
H Wren

JM


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Offline brjhh2001

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 03:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

I think Sarah's parents were recorded as THIRSTON and GOLDEN. 

The online index for NSW BDM :

1850  Marriages
Volume 36B, line 214.
I note that Volumes 1-44 are Church of England and that Vol 36B covers both marriages and burials.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/births-deaths-and-marriages-registers-1787-1856




Yep, those are certainly Sarah's parents. I have seen the mother's name variously spelled Goulden, Golden and Golding. I am unable to work out why they died around the same time - possibly severe illness or something of the sort.

Re circuit theory - to me it makes more than enough sense. If that were not the case, why would she have waited a year to marry? Having a child born illegitimate was certainly not looked upon kindly, although it does appear that it's possible the Wrens were aware of John's paternity and did not shun her and the child.

Re JW Thicknesse AIF record - incredible stuff, I was not aware of his service in Egypt and Greece. It appears he contracted malaria at one point and went absent whenever he felt like it  ;D But yes, he was also known as John William Thicknesse. I suppose Samuel must have adopted him in order to make him legitimate.

Re the Thurston brothers - yep John and Andrew were Sarah's brothers. I believe she was the eldest child. I have DNA matches on Ancestry descended from both of them so that is certainly them. I wonder where and how they lived after the death of their parents? Seemingly, the proverbial hit the fan.

That list is interesting. I was not aware there were other Dawsons at Kameruka. I assume T. Dawson is probably Elizabeth's older brother Thomas. The problem is that that local area is incredibly small so moving between Candelo, Kameruka, Tarraganda, Corridgeree, Bega etc etc wasn't exactly an arduous task and our Sarah and the beau could have been absolutely anywhere.

One thought I did have - Arthur Alma was younger than Sarah, in reality by 2 years but by Sarah's estimate of her age at least 1-1.5 younger. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't the father but given the child's conception was not in an assault circumstance and clearly there was some connection between her and the dad, it does seem more "conventional" that the bloke would be older. Another thing - Arthur never had any other children. He was married to his first wife from 1884ish until she died in 1923. It's possible this was by choice but also possible that he (maybe her) was infertile. Then again - as mentioned before, Sarah named two later sons Henry and Arthur and John gave one of his sons the middle name Arthur, so who knows. How likely would you say it is that Sarah would have told him he was illegitimate/who his father was?
I figure it may be impossible to know who the father was with certainty but with any luck maybe an educated guess could be possible.

Thanks for the awesome research help by the way!  ;D

Offline majm

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 03:56 GMT (UK) »
I think it is also very possible that Samuel was the biological father and that quite possibly the marriage was delayed until Sarah was old enough to give consent in her own right. 

There were at least two chaps in NSW in that time who were known as John THIRSTON and married to Mary.  There's Mary A GOLDEN/GOLDING and other variations and there's Mary A VASSEL - ANSSEL and many other variations.   

Kameruka was far more than just the Homestead and surrounds - the civil parish was and still is named Kameruka, and the land holders are named on the historic parish maps - the TOOTH holdings included, but so too the other holdings - far far more than just the Tooth holdings.

Bembuka was and still is a locality within the civil parish of Colombo.


JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:19 GMT (UK) »
Do you have the 1865 death cert (or official transcription) for John THURSTON death, registered Eden, Ref 3649?  If so, who was the informant?

ADD (date drills down online website to 24 November 1865, so Sarah would be old enough to find employment)

JM
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:24 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps you have these, but for your interest ;)

This funeral notice makes mention of John and Andrew Thurston again.

It is these funeral of their brother in law John Everett and also mentioned is J W THICKNESSE who is
a stepson of the deceased man.  The wording suggests it is his stepfather. 1898

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/141058407

 
Death notice for Andrew THURSTON. Loved brother of Sarah Everett, 1937 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17374488

Sue
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Offline majm

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:26 GMT (UK) »
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110294899  Bega Gaz 9 Dec 1865  ... 43 years of age, leaving a widow and three children to mourn their loss.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:29 GMT (UK) »
So if John EVERETT was stepfather to John THICKNESSE, was that because his father was the late Samuel THICKNESSE...

JM
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Offline brjhh2001

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Re: Attempting to work out biological father of ancestor
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 05 January 22 04:53 GMT (UK) »
I think it is also very possible that Samuel was the biological father and that quite possibly the marriage was delayed until Sarah was old enough to give consent in her own right. 



I find this and a connection to H. Wren through Sarah's mother somewhat unlikely because it does not explain where the Dawson DNA would be coming from. Given our close DNA relations to Wrens and Dawsons and Sarah's connection to Kameruka, it makes far more sense that the child's father be one of Henry Wren and Elizabeth Dawson's sons. I also did a check - I have no DNA matches for any names in Samuel Thicknesse's tree. As to waiting until she could consent theory - this would make sense but she did not know that she was 21. John's birth certif. from August 1872 shows that she thought she was at least a year and a half younger than she was. So by her estimation and by extension everyone else's, she was still too young to consent herself at the time of marriage to Sam Thicknesse.

I do not have the official death certif. for John Thurston unfortunately.
Sarah finding employment at Kameruka/Tarraganda/Corridgeree after losing her parents is certainly a possibility and would absolutely explain how she met the Wrens.

Perhaps you have these, but for your interest ;)

This funeral notice makes mention of John and Andrew Thurston again.


I actually had not seen this before, thank you!

So if John EVERETT was stepfather to John THICKNESSE, was that because his father was the late Samuel THICKNESSE...

JM

John Everett was Sarah's second husband. After Samuel died in 1884 in West Maitland, Sarah returned to Bega briefly (as evidenced by Edward Samuel Thicknesse's erroneous birth record) before she married John Everett in Newcastle in 1889.
Samuel Thicknesse was John William Thurston (Thicknesse)'s adoptive father  :)

Offline majm

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