Author Topic: (Dumb) Ethnicity question  (Read 693 times)

Offline JayUU

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(Dumb) Ethnicity question
« on: Saturday 08 January 22 19:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Just received my DNA results from Ancestry and I'm confused (happens a lot).

Ethnicity Estimate... OK, I understand it's an estimate. But even so ...

We get 50% DNA from Dad and 50% from Mum - easy peasy. And I understand that the breakdowns of those 50%s will vary from sibling to sibling

My Dad's side is all Irish and Mum's side is all central/eastern European/Germanic.

Yet the Ancestry Ethnicity Estimate shows 62% Ireland and 36% Germanic/Sweden/Denmark.

How so?  Dodgy algorithm? Or has my confusion meant I've overlooked some simply maths or a lack of understanding re: DNA inheritance??

Thanks

John
WALSH - Ireland
CRINGLE - Liverpool, Isle of Man, Ireland
TYRER - Liverpool & Chesterfield
STAUNTON - Liverpool & Co. Mayo, Ireland
MORRISON - Liverpool & Co. Mayo, Ireland
KÖNIG - Turn-Teplice, Czech Rep.
POSPICHIL - Turn-Teplice, Czech Rep. & Sarajevo, Croatia
HEPBURN - Blackpool & Fylde, LANCS
ROSS - Blackpool & Fylde, LANCS
HESSELDEN - Sheffield, YORKS

Offline Gadget

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 08 January 22 23:45 GMT (UK) »
There are lots of threads here on ethnicity calculations by the various companies.

However, all the estimates are really a point  in a range,  If  you click on each estimate in the details section, you will see a range given rather than a simple %.

For example. My estimate shows me as being 88% Welsh but if I click on the estimate, it gives:

Quote
Your ethnicity estimate is 88%, but it can range from 61-99%

and

Quote
Your range of 61—99% comes from making multiple comparisons of your DNA to our reference panel. It includes other possible, but less likely, percentages.
 
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Offline TonyV

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 08 January 22 23:52 GMT (UK) »
Mine's much worse. My maternal side is solidly English going back at least 6 generations but my English percentage is shown as around 5%. Go figure!

Offline Gadget

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 08 January 22 23:55 GMT (UK) »
Continuing from my previous post , See this article

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/dna-help/ethnicity/bootstrapping

and

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/dna-help/ethnicity/whitepaper

Most of us on here don't take much notice of the estimates, although they are getting a bit better.
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Online Rena

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 09 January 22 00:05 GMT (UK) »
You might also like to see this, which possibly explains why my OH had olive skin :-

http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/ireclans.htm
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline phil57

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 09 January 22 10:55 GMT (UK) »
Just to add, yes you inherit 50% of your DNA from each parent, and matching to relatives by descent involves identifying segments in both your and your matches DNA which are identical. Beyond smaller segment lengths, the results are indisputable.

Ethnicity matching involves identifying segments in your DNA which the testing company consider similar or identical to patterns found in the DNA of other individuals (not necessarily related to you by descent) who they have allocated as originating from or being most often found in a particular region. The results and regions differ between testing companies according to their algorithms, reference population samples (which can be as few as 20 or so people in some cases) and whatever else they decide to match on, or not. They (the testing companies) will all have different characteristics that they infer ethnicity matches from, and different opinions of the geographical areas that constitute their reference regions. At continental levels, it can be considered reasonably accurate, but at more local levels and with the smaller percentages of your DNA that they might allocate to them, it may have no actual basis in truth. In other words, it is as much of a black art as a science, although they will try to persuade you otherwise, and best taken with a large pinch of salt!

It's the eye-catching "promise" that draws in customers, many of whom have little interest in finding relatives and most recent common ancestors. That's all, really.
Stokes - London and Essex
Hodges - Somerset
Murden - Notts
Humphries/Humphreys from Montgomeryshire

Offline JayUU

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 09 January 22 16:08 GMT (UK) »
There are lots of threads here on ethnicity calculations by the various companies.

However, all the estimates are really a point  in a range,  If  you click on each estimate in the details section, you will see a range given rather than a simple %.

<snip>

Yes I see now and makes much more sense and also gives a big clue as to the accuracy of the algorithms. Thank you.
WALSH - Ireland
CRINGLE - Liverpool, Isle of Man, Ireland
TYRER - Liverpool & Chesterfield
STAUNTON - Liverpool & Co. Mayo, Ireland
MORRISON - Liverpool & Co. Mayo, Ireland
KÖNIG - Turn-Teplice, Czech Rep.
POSPICHIL - Turn-Teplice, Czech Rep. & Sarajevo, Croatia
HEPBURN - Blackpool & Fylde, LANCS
ROSS - Blackpool & Fylde, LANCS
HESSELDEN - Sheffield, YORKS

Offline JayUU

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 09 January 22 16:11 GMT (UK) »
Just to add, yes you inherit 50% of your DNA from each parent, and matching to relatives by descent involves identifying segments in both your and your matches DNA which are identical. Beyond smaller segment lengths, the results are indisputable.

<snip]

Thanks for that explanation Phil. Very much marketing then! As a sanity check, they've at least got the larger geographical areas correct  (Ireland and central/eastern Europe) with a few small surprises.
WALSH - Ireland
CRINGLE - Liverpool, Isle of Man, Ireland
TYRER - Liverpool & Chesterfield
STAUNTON - Liverpool & Co. Mayo, Ireland
MORRISON - Liverpool & Co. Mayo, Ireland
KÖNIG - Turn-Teplice, Czech Rep.
POSPICHIL - Turn-Teplice, Czech Rep. & Sarajevo, Croatia
HEPBURN - Blackpool & Fylde, LANCS
ROSS - Blackpool & Fylde, LANCS
HESSELDEN - Sheffield, YORKS

Offline Zaphod99

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Re: (Dumb) Ethnicity question
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 09 January 22 18:59 GMT (UK) »
DNA Testing companies use some sort of algorithm to allocate ethnicity estimate to people, although these are considered apocryphal as the test databases are not yet sufficiently large to be considered truly accurate. The algorithms are closely guarded secret, and nobody knows over how many generations they apply. I am told that I am English Irish Scandinavian and and Southern Italy or Greek. I just want to somehow assess what I am calling micro ethnicity, and I have two Irish great great grandparent and a Scottish great great great grandparent otherwise I believe I am totally English.


From Blaine Bettinger's book, "A guide to DNA testing and genetic genealogy" . "Ethnicity estimates are merely percentages of the test-taker's DNA determined by the testing company's algorithm to be associated with a particular continent, region, or country.  <cut>  The goal of most ethnicity estimates is to identify where the test-taker's DNA was found approximately 500 to 1000 years ago.  <cut> Results reflect where your ancestors lived, before the widespread migrations of the past few hundred years."

Zaph