James Hills married Martha Emery - both believed passed away at Gravesend

[rosie99]

Just looking at it again in case I have missed something 

The marriage of James Hills is to a Martha Emery, no middle name Ann.

Sarahs marriage names her father as James Hills - Deceased, no occupation mentioned. A witness was Martha Ann Hills, it does not indicate what relation she is to Sarah.  The marriage took place at Stoke Newington as it was Sarahs current place of abode, she gave no occupation at the time of her marriage but could previously have been a servant in that area.  Have you located a baptism for Sarah to confirm the name of her mother 

Edward was a Waterman born in Milton by Gravesend and was still in that area at the time of his marriage presumably as that was where his work as Waterman was based.  His father Francis Isaac Coy was also a Waterman according to Edwards baptism.

James junior married in Portsea, his occupation was a 'Wollen' Draper, his father James was a builder.  What was young James doing in Portsea, did his parents also move there. 

Presumably the death records you have in Australia confirm that James was born in Gravesend and the parents are James Hills & Martha Emery, I know that they are far more informative than English records

As for Kent records, sadly they are far from complete online.

[Mixo]

Hi,

Sorry Rosie - no birth certificate located from here for Sarah. I do recall seeing a census noting a Sarah Hills as a servant of I think of about 15 years of age in Stoke, and I think one Ancestry tree had an IGI reference for her birth.

Re James Jnrs' interests in Portsea I have no idea, as I think you are referring to a time frame prior to UK Census of 1841. Yes - Aussie record states "James Hills" and "Martha Emery" as his parents, however often middle names were omitted in those days.

Regards with thanks for your time and expertise.
Mixo
Via Warragul Victoria

[rosie99]

At least Australian records confirm that the names of James Hills and Martha Emery exactly match the English marriage with no middle name for Martha Emery.

I can only see one tree with a full date but that names Sarah Hills born Essex mother as Sarah and has her birth 1819 and baptism 18 April 1822 at Billericay.

I think that the 1841 census entry you mention may be the one at Newington, Lambeth and not Stoke Newington.  That is also showing on that tree.

If James juniors father was a builder as mentioned on the marriage entry then a mention of a James Hills who has died in the Portsea area c1837 could be relevant.  It was in relation to the sale of private residences by auction at The Mitre in Portsea by the executor of the late James Hills.  It mentions '3 lots'. all are dwellings.   Perhaps they were all built by him 
Lot 1 - 1 Cold Harbour Lane, Landport
Lot 2 - Spring Garden Street (James Hills residence)
Lot 3 - 26 Marlborough Row, Portsea
Hampshire Advertiser 26 August 1837

There is a burial for that James which may infer he was single as it mentions his parents Thomas & Elizabeth and no mention of a wife, so possibly not your James

[Mixo]

Hi Rosie and all interested Rootschat members,

Having found no listing of your reference to James Hills passing C1837 at Portsea via FreeReg search in all of Hampton from 1830 - 1845, I agree he most likely is not my James. With all due respect, I believe your suggestion of a Sarah Hills born to a Sarah from Billericay with a mother Sarah, and not a Martha ( Emery ) from Gravesend, is most likely not my Sarah.

I have spent quite a deal of time trying to find any relevant birth record for Martha Emery ( with Ann as an optional middle name too ), in FreeReg, Ancestry, and FamilySearch, and have been unable to confirm any details. I would really appreciate any idea or input re Martha's birth, as I am beginning think her birth may not have been registered anywhere.

Also, I have spent quite some time tracing James Snr parentage, as outlined below, and I would really appreciate your comments and feedback, as far as how accurate the following details may be.

               ==============================================

James Hills Snr Baptised 4 May 1788, St Mary's Chatham Kent,
Married Martha ( Ann ? ) Emery 14 Dec 1815, St Botolphs Northfleet Kent, File 1469436 IT 3
Parents of -
James Hills Jnr Bap 8 Nov 1816, Gravesend, died Elliminyt and buried Colac Vic Aus Sep 1895.
Sarah Hills ( to be confirmed ) Born 1824 South Benfleet Essex, married Edward Haffel Coy on 8 Jul 1846 at St Mary's Stoke Newington, and died 6 Aug 1919 at Gravesend, where her 10 children were born.

Only relevant Death record of any James Hill born 1788 located to date, is that of James passing at St Botolphs Hadstock Essex.

Only relevant Death record of any Martha Ann Hills nee Emery born 1791 at Chatham located to date, is that of an "Ann Hills" passing away at Gravesend on 29 Dec 1873.

                    =========================================

Parents of James Hills Snr born 1788 St Mary's Chatham.
Father is noted as James Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Nov 1763
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN

                    =========================================

Parents of James Hills born 1763 at Chatham
Father is noted as William Hills, Bap St Mary's Chatham on 13 Jul 1740
Mother is noted as Elizabeth UNKNOWN

This William Hills is noted as having parents of William and Mary Hills, to be confirmed.

Looking forward to your reply,
Mixo
Via Warragul Vic Aus

[rosie99]

Going back to Sarah Hills born South Benfleet - father James and marriage witness Martha Ann Hills.

South Benfleet PR's have a Martha Ann Hills baptised 10 September 1826 parents James & Lydia, could she be the marriage witness and probably Sarahs sister.

[rosie99]

Just looking at James Hills senior.
Proved facts
He married Martha Emery December 1815 at Northfleet.
His son James was baptised 1816 Gravesend

Do we have any proof that he was born in Chatham 

[Mixo]

I do have a copy of James Snr handwritten Baptism record from St Mary's Chatham in 1788 Rosie, but I cant attach it for some dumb reason - maybe I'm just dumb LOL

All is says under 4 May 1788 is "Hills - James S of James and Elizabeth"

Re Sarah, I read your comment a few times, then I realized Martha ( maybe Ann ) would have been baptized with the surname of Emery and not Hills, so this Martha Ann Hills from 1826 at Sth Benfleet you mention, is most likely not Sarah's sister as suggested.

Regards with thanks,
Mixo

[rosie99]

Sorry, I realise that you have the Chatham baptism details but I meant how do you know that your James was born in Chatham.  We have his marriage details but they give no indication of his birth place.

[jomcd967]

I agree with Rosie, that the Sarah Hills who married Edward Coy is most likely the daughter of James & Lydia Hills (or an earlier wife) and also related to the Martha Ann Hills (witness at her wedding). I don’t think that the Martha Ann who witnessed Sarah’s marriage was her mother.
1817 James s/o James & Lydia (carpenter) South Benfleet
Martha Ann d/o James & Lydia 1826 South Benfleet

It helps to focus on what you know to be fact. The baptism of your James and the marriage of his parents. The occupation of both James’s at a certain point of time. Everything else is an assumption.

There are many possible deaths for a James Hills in the appropriate age frame. You have no evidence of his year of birth, he could have married anywhere from age 18 to 50…. He also could have been born anywhere…

There are also many possible baptisms as well as the one you mention earlier. It helps to step back sometimes and strip it right back to what you are sure of.

Do you have James Jnr Australian death certificate? Any family wills? Anything regarding James and Martha that you can be sure of?

Jo