What happened to the Lawless brothers?

[1931census]

The Lawless brothers were born as the children of boot-finisher Henry Lawless (1837 - 1895) and his second wife Mary Ann Ellis (1852 - 1916). There were seven sons - William, Peter, James, Cornelius, David and John. When Henry Lawless died in 1895, Mary, was seeming unable to cope with raising all these sons as a single mother (6 out of 7 were still minors) and the sons split up. I have struggled to trace Peter and John, the youngest.

Peter was born in approximately 1878 (I haven't been able to find a birth record). On the 15th of April 1896, aged 17-18, he married 18 year-old Agnes Ellis (daughter of James Ellis) in St Augustine Church, Stepney, London. I believe that then, in July 1898, he enlisted in the Navy, leaving in April 1899. In the 1901 census, he is living with his brothers William and James in Whitechapel, although he is listed as single. After this, I believe that he went in and out of the Tower Hamlets workhouse, entering in 1902 and 1908. From here, I can find no more records, nor any information about his wife, Agnes.

John was born in January 1895, and after his father died when he was a few months old, he went in and out of the workhouse, first entering in July 1896 and leaving in August 1896 then re-entering the same month and leaving in February 1897. After this, I can find no more records relating to him.

Can anybody help me? I am happy to link certain records if they are needed.

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

I think this is Peter's birth registration on the GRO site misspelt as,

Peter LAWRUS    Sep Q 1878    London City    1c  11
mmn:  ELLIS     



I found this at FindMyPast, the image has more info but it looks like him, already saying he is single,

Militia Attestation
Peter LAWLESS
No:  4273
Corps:  5th Bn Rifle Bde
Birth parish:  Hounsditch
Birth town:  London
Age:  17 years 11 months
Single
No children
Attestation date:  27 Jul 1897

To Royal Navy 19.07.97


Regards,
Daisy

[1931census]

Hi,

I think this is Peter's birth registration on the GRO site misspelt as,

Peter LAWRUS    Sep Q 1878    London City    1c  11
mmn:  ELLIS     



I found this at FindMyPast, the image has more info but it looks like him, already saying he is single,

Militia Attestation
Peter LAWLESS
No:  4273
Corps:  5th Bn Rifle Bde
Birth parish:  Hounsditch
Birth town:  London
Age:  17 years 11 months
Single
No children
Attestation date:  27 Jul 1897

To Royal Navy 19.07.97


Regards,
Daisy

Thank you, that's all useful to have!

[Girl Guide]

I wonder if this is John in the 1901 census?  Two are listed with this name.  One age 7 and the other age 5.

Residing at Low Leyton, West Ham, London & Essex

Both listed as orphan and both have birth place as Mile End.  Same one listed twice with one having an incorrect age?

Registration district West Ham
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 1622
Folio 96

The only birth registered in the London area is:-

LAWLESS, JOHN       ELLIS 
GRO Reference: 1895  M Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 546

These are births listed between 1894 and 1896.  All the others are in the North and one in Wales.

[Daisypetal]

Oops,

It should have read "To Royal Navy 19.07.98".

[softly softly]

Info only.
Between 1894-1897 the is only 1 John Lawless born in the south of England as already posted.

A John Lawless (1895) appears on the new 1921 census in Mile End Old Town. There would appear to be 9 other Lawless surnamed individuals in this house. Also on the 1939 war register in Tottenham is a  John Lawless-ships steward. He goes on to marry a Eveline Havey in 1954. He died 1970 Haringey with a dob 12.7.1896. This is the same day and month as the 1939 register but one year different. Wondering if John ever really knew his exact dob?

John

[Daisypetal]

Hi,

While I was searching around John beat me to it   I'll post this anyway and see what he/you/everyone thinks 



In 1921 there is a John LAWLESS b.1895 living in Mile End Old Town it says, John, W, G and 2 others are on this record, but I can't see any other details.


I think he is living with,

W JONES      b.1861
G JONES       b.1905
E JONES       b.1901
John JONES  b.1901



I think there is another LAWLESS family in Mile End Old TOWN which includes a John N b.1903. This family has 9 members. Here they are in 1911,

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPW-9JM

+ Edwin  b.1911
+ William  b.1913



There is also a John LAWLESS b.1866 with a Mary LAWLESS b.1873 living there.



I'm only just finding my way around searching the free information of this census so I hope this is right.


Daisy

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There's a John b c1895 who is in the City of London Infirmary August 1896 - Feb 1897 then moved on discharge to the Mile End workhouse. He appeared to suffer from the results of diphtheria - one record refers to paralysis. Sorry to say another appears to list him as "deemed insane" but some of the entries on the page don;t seem to line up properly

Added - address 4 Masons Court

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Looking at Peter, his workhouse records say "to Long Grove asylum" which is in Epsom. There's a death in the district in Q3 1931 of someone born c1880. Similarly there's someone in that asylum in 1911 indexed as PL - place of birth looks like Redpath

Have found this Peter's  Lunacy Act papers from 1908 - it notes that he fancies people are putting poison in his food