Sweeney Swiney Sweeny Swineford Mayo

[donovan456]

Hi
Thank you for your reply and taking the time to help me. I have found a John Sweeney as a boarder on the 1851 census in Lancashire, but cannot confirm if that is the right John Sweeney, as you said a lot of Sweeney's moved to Lancashire. I have details of their life after he left the army and moved to Lancashire its the before Lancashire Ireland bit as I am not even sure what his mother name was only Patrick as father from marriage certificate.
John's army record is he spent 20years and 103 days in the army is no was 1024 of the 33rd a Foot. His army records state attested 16th Nov 1857 at Liverpool Lancaster at 18 occupation Groom born in Swainsford County Mayo Ireland, that is how it spelt on the army records. He was stationed in 1873 in Fermoy and also 1st June 1874 Haulbowline, island, Cork, Cork, Ireland. He then returned to India in 1875 and Mary must have gone with him as John their son was born in India, Mary at sea, Bridget had already died. The 1881 census you refered to is my family, James was his brother but I cannot find his birth records. James Sweeney married Mary Meara or Minney minnie, I am not sure if Catherine is their daughter or John and Mary's on the 1921 census John died in 1917, but Mary died with my great grandfather present which is the Alexander Sweeney you mentioned born 1882, Mary died 1931 on the 1921 census she is listed as 66 and six months on her death certificate 10years later she is listed as 71. On the 1921 census she has listed having 9 children but five now not living. I can only account for John born India, Bridget born died Ireland, Mary born at sea, Alexander my great grandfather born 1882 died 1953, Nellie born 1889 which is probably the Ellen you refer to, James born and died Haslingden.
Re Darwen yes they did live in Darwen that is where I was born at I attended St Joseph's church as a child before coming to Australia. I have not been able to access any records from there. Thank you very much for that information. My grandmother Mary Ellen Sweeney daughter of Alexander had a sister called Mabel who married Henry Burke this could also be a connection.
Thank you very much for all the links I will try to work my way through all the information.
Thank you once again, I appreciate your time.
On the 1891 census John Mitchell appears as a nephew when they are living in Darwen then.
On the 1901 census they are living in Eccleshill Darwen M McAndrew appears then as a cousin aged 38 born Southport Lancashire with his children James 7 John 4 Nellie aged 1 born in Blackburn and Darwen. 

[Maiden Stone]

The 1881 census you refered to is my family, James was his brother but I cannot find his birth records. James Sweeney married Mary Meara or Minney minnie, I am not sure if Catherine is their daughter

 Mary died 1931 on the 1921 census she is listed as 66 and six months on her death certificate 10years later she is listed as 71. On the 1921 census she has listed having 9 children but five now not living. I can only account for John born India, Bridget born died Ireland, Mary born at sea, Alexander my great grandfather born 1882 died 1953, Nellie born 1889 which is probably the Ellen you refer to, James born and died Haslingden.
Re Darwen yes they did live in Darwen .   I have not been able to access any records from there.

On the 1901 census they are living in Eccleshill Darwen M McAndrew appears then as a cousin aged 38 born Southport Lancashire with his children James 7 John 4 Nellie aged 1 born in Blackburn and Darwen. 

1881 census. I understood Catherine's relationship to mean that she was the daughter of James and/or Minnie/Mary + niece to John. The relationship was supposed to be to the head of household. I was only going by transcription on Family Search. Do you know what happened to James?

Total for Mary Sweeney's children so far is 7.
 Bridget 1875; John 1876; Mary 1878; James 1880; Alexander 1882; Catherine 1887; Ellen 1889.
 Death of a baby Catherine was registered in Darwen sub-district 1887. That makes 3 deaths, Bridget, James and Catherine.
 Was information about number of children born, living and dead consistent with 1911 census? I notice a gap between Alexander and Catherine. Perhaps there was a stillbirth and Mary counted it among her 9 children. There doesn't seem to have been a Patrick, unless he was born abroad or in Ireland and didn't live long. There were more deaths of infants or young children in Darwen. 

Darwen.
 Darwen appears as a sub-district on Lancashire BMD.
Transcriptions of registers of 1 Catholic church in Darwen are on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks. Go to Darwen Home page and select Churches from menu. List of churches by denomination. Foundation dates shown. Click on name of church, then on baptisms &c. to see which years have been transcribed. Look at Blackburn churches too. Priests from there may have ministered to Darwen Catholics before Darwen had a Catholic church. (While looking through Rawtenstall registers yesterday, I noticed that some entries were for ceremonies performed at Ramsbottom before that town had a Catholic church.) "Ancestor Search" under Search tab is useful if you don't know a specific church or even a town. 
Haslingden, Bacup and Rawtenstall Catholic register transcriptions begun to be added to LAN-OPC during past couple of years. 

1901 census. Was M. McAndrew male or female? S/he was single according to census. Likely birth registrations to match information about the children are 1896 John,  Darwen sub-district and 1900 Ellen in Blackburn. mother' maiden surname was McAndrew. The only registration I could see for James McAndrew of the right age in Blackburn or Darwen was 1894, mother's maiden surname Fifield. A James McAndrew, mother's maiden surname McAndrew was registered in Oldham 1893. So the McAndrew cousin hasn't helped.

[donovan456]

Do you know what happened to James?
I think this is John's brother James Sweeney
Age:   59
Estimated Birth Year:   abt 1855 Death Registration Burnley, Lancashire, Mar 1914
Volume:   8e
Page:   300
He was in the army like John but their is quite an age gap between them. I think he enlisted in Burnley. I have just found his marriage certificate he was married in Cork 3rdSep 1875 St Patrick's, Cork city, Ireland,Spouse Mary Meara, I have copy of marriage cert now and it reads James Swiney, not Sweeney, Patrick Swiney living Brick Layer, James was private 33rd regiment Cork Barracks, I also found a marriage record that says James was born India so now Patrick may have been in the army too?.

[Maiden Stone]

James was private 33rd regiment Cork Barracks, I also found a marriage record that says James was born India so now Patrick may have been in the army too?.

I thought that too. Either army, Indian Civil Service or overseas business. Army most likely in their case. A high proportion of soldiers in 19th century were Irish. A young Irishman was more likely to join the army than a young Englishman, mainly due to limited employment opportunities in Ireland.

James' birth may be on a UK regimental and overseas births register.
National Archives website has a guide. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk 
See also army chaplains returns and regimental registers on GenGuide website.
Where did you get James' marriage information from? That's 2 pieces of information about Patrick - he was alive in 1875 and was a bricklayer.

Added. I've now found James' wedding in church register and civil registration Irish Genealgy.ie. His surname was written Swiney on the civil registration but indexed as Sweeney. Although spelling of  signature could be Sweeney. Mary made her mark. I assumed James signed his name.  I've submitted an amendment. Handwriting in church register is unclear, it could be Swiney, Sweiney or Sweeney. 

[Maiden Stone]

That's 2 pieces of information about Patrick - he was alive in 1875 and was a bricklayer.
 

That means he wasn't the one shot in Ireland in 1871 (reply #7).

Is Patrick Sweeney who was in Darwen with wife Elizabeth in 1871 & 1881 one of yours?
1881 census Henry Street, Over Darwen Page 61 Piece/Folio 4206/56
Patrick Sweeney  65 head born Ireland navvy
Elizabeth             52 wife  born Ireland
Mary                   18 daughter born Over Darwen
Mary A Sweeney    5  granddaughter born Preston
+ 4 male boarders,  (3 Irish navvies, 1 Welsh bricksetter)

1871 census Darwen
Patrick Sweeney   53 born Ireland
Elizabeth              40? born Ireland
Michael                 20
Patrick                  18
Austin                   16
Bridget                 16 born Darwen
Mary                      8
I didn't note where the rest were born.
Austin short for Augustine was typical for Mayo.
This is a "blended" family. Mary was the child of both Patrick and Elizabeth. Older children were from previous marriage/s

Marriage St. Anne, Blackburn 1859
Patrick Sweeney Over Darwen
Elizabeth Sweeney
Groom's father Alexander Sweeney
Bride's father Simon Sweeney

Baptisms of 4 children at St. Joseph, Darwen
Thomas 1860; Mary 1862; Simon 1865; James 1866
https://www.lan-opc.co.uk
Birth registrations Darwen sub-district, mother's maiden surname Sweeney
Thomas 1860; Mary 1862; Simon 1865; James 1866
(Lancashire BMD)

I can't identify birth registrations or find baptisms for the older children on 1871 census. There was at least 1 more Patrick Sweeney in Darwen whose wife was having children around that time. They may have been related - a Patrick Sweeney was godfather to child of another Patrick Sweeney.

I couldn't find Patrick & Elizabeth on 1861 census or 1891.
2 possible death registrations for Patrick Sweeney in Blackburn district 1882 and 1883.

[Maiden Stone]

Back to Haslingden
2 marriages at St. Mary's Haslingden, bride's father Patrick Sweeny. Probably the same bride.
1874 John Brannen & Catherine Sweeny. Bride's father Patrick Sweeny. Witnesses John & Ann Mullany
1887 Joseph Sheppard ANDERTON & Bridget Brennan, widow of John Brennan. Bride's father Patrick Sweeny.
Bride's name was Bridget for both marriages according to marriage registrations Lancashire BMD.
[/quote]

A Mary Sweeney was godmother to 2 children of John & Bridget Brennan (Sweeney).

1881 census Far Back Pleasant Street, Haslingden
John Brennan, wife Bridget (25) + 3 daughters + John's mother. Says Bridget born Haslingden.
Someone on Family Search has attached this record to Bridget Burke which is incorrect.
There were 2 Sweeney households in Pleasant Street on 1861 census (reply #8).

Bridget's 2nd marriage  to Joseph Anderton produced a son, Alexander.
Birth registration 1888 Anderton, Alexander; mother's maiden surnames Sweeney and Brennan

Baptism St. Mary, Haslingden Nov. 1888
Alexander Anderton child of [unnamed] Anderton
Born 20th Nov. Abode workhouse

Alexander was a rare name for a child in Haslingden then. Alexander Sweeney and Alexander Anderton were the only babies baptised Alexander in Haslingden and the only boys registered with that name in Hyndburn registration district in the years they were born. Those 2 account for a third of all boys baptised Alexander in Haslingden in the decade. 

[Maiden Stone]

Marriage St. Anne, Blackburn 1859
Patrick Sweeney Over Darwen
Elizabeth Sweeney
Groom's father Alexander Sweeney
Bride's father Simon Sweeney

Elizabeth Sweeney was with her father Simon in Liverpool 1851 census. Court Colleywood.
Piece/folio 2176/218 Page 17 Reg. HO107
Michael Sweeney, Simon's son was head of household. Other household occupants were Michael's wife & children, his sisters, + an assortment of relatives. Total 14. All born Ireland except a baby.

[donovan456]

James was private 33rd regiment Cork Barracks, I also found a marriage record that says James was born India so now Patrick may have been in the army too?.

I thought that too. Either army, Indian Civil Service or overseas business. Army most likely in their case. A high proportion of soldiers in 19th century were Irish. A young Irishman was more likely to join the army than a young Englishman, mainly due to limited employment opportunities in Ireland.

James' birth may be on a UK regimental and overseas births register.
National Archives website has a guide. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk 
See also army chaplains returns and regimental registers on GenGuide website.
Where did you get James' marriage information from? That's 2 pieces of information about Patrick - he was alive in 1875 and was a bricklayer.

Added. I've now found James' wedding in church register and civil registration Irish Genealgy.ie. His surname was written Swiney on the civil registration but indexed as Sweeney. Although spelling of  signature could be Sweeney. Mary made her mark. I assumed James signed his name.  I've submitted an amendment. Handwriting in church register is unclear, it could be Swiney, Sweiney or Sweeney.

Thank you for doing an amendment, and continuing to search. I am trying to absorb sort out the information you have provided and work my way through it. Two things I have found out since searching on information assistance from you are My great grandfather Alexander Sweeney who married in Haslingden registry office in 1910 to Mabel Thornley or Thorniley ( another surname that keeps changing depending who wrote it). I thought it strange being so strong catholics being married in a registry office I found out they were remarried At St Joseph's church in 1912 as Mabel was pregnant with my grandmother at the time of the registry office marriage, she then had my grandmother Mary Ellen and her sister Mabel who married Henry Burke later they then got married again in Dec 1912 at St Joseph's, though she is recorded as Isabelle which I think is again a transcription error.
I have also now found Mary Meara's birth baptism she was baptised 8th of January 1857 St Patricks cork city father John Meara and mother Mary Meara being born 1st January 1857. Also witness at the baptism was Mary Bradley who was also witness at James and Mary Meara's wedding, on church record it says the Meara's lived in Mayfield Cork in 1857.
Thanks again for all your help

[Maiden Stone]

 My great grandfather Alexander Sweeney who married in Haslingden registry office in 1910 to Mabel Thornley or Thorniley ( another surname that keeps changing depending who wrote it). I thought it strange being so strong catholics being married in a registry office I found out they were remarried At St Joseph's church in 1912 

 

This guidance may be useful when looking for marriages of Catholics in Lancashire or any marriages in Lancashire.
Lancashire BMD "Users' guide to the Marriage Indexes"
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriageinfo.php
Recently discussed on RootsChat topic "Grimshaw of Haslingden" 
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=856494.0