Jennie Mac Arthur and Benjamin Thomas m.1900 - Manchester

[StephenEThomas]

Hi all,

first post, and it's a long one, so I apologise in advance if I have missed any posting conventions, please put me straight.

I am trying to find out about my Paternal great grandparents for whom I have very little information.

My grandfather Benjamin Thomas and great aunt Jennie (Jean) Thomas were brought up in the Marston Green Children's homes in Birmingham between approx 1903 and sometime around 1916. They are present there in the 1911 census. They never knew anything about their parents (as far as we know) and as a result we have no family information prior to this. We have asked the Birmingham records for any information from the homes but we are still waiting.

By searching 1901 census records in Birmingham I have found a Benjamin Thomas (b.1900 Manchester) living with his mother Jeanie Thomas (b.1877 in Scotland)

There is then the birth certificate in Birmingham for a Jennie Macarthur Thomas b. November 1901 with mother Jennie Thomas (formerly Macarthur) and father B.Thomas at a different but nearby address (238 Newtown Row) to the census record.

There is a baptism record for Benjamin Thomas at a nearby church earlier in May 1901 (Father Benjamin, mother 'Jane'), with the same address as Jennie's birth certificate (238 Newtown Row). This seems to confirm that this Benjamin and Jennie are my grandfather and great aunt who end up in the Children's homes in the next 18 months or so, and their parents are, confusingly, Benjamin and Jennie/Jeanie/Jane

Based on the Census entry stating a Manchester birth for my grandfather I searched the manchester area for Benjamin Thomas b.1900 and found his birth certificate in November with parents Benjamin and Jennie Thomas (formerly MacArthur).

Looking then for a marriage certificate in Manchester I found that Benjamin Thomas (b.1878) married Jennie Mac Arthur (b.1877) in Manchester in September 1900, just 2 months before my grandfather was born. Their parents are listed as Philip Thomas and John Mac Arthur (deceased).

From here I can find nothing, no previous census entries where a Benjamin/Philip are living together that seem likely, or a Jennie/John living together that look likely. The Jennie/John possible entries I can find all seem to have a 1901 census entry in Scotland which conflicts with the fact that Jennie should be married in Birmingham in the 1901 census.

Across the various certificates Ben's profession is Tea Traveller, Commercial Traveller, Jeweller, and Jeweller Journeyman. I can't find any strong possible matches on any census. I do wonder if he was really who he says he was.

A post elsewere on this site links Tea Travellers to a Scottish profession, which seems oddly specific, but it makes me wonder if both were Scottish, it would explain how they met. Jennie's father is listed as a Wine and Spirits merchant, so may also have bought/sold tea?

I have struggled a little with the Scotland's People site but I have essentially reached a brick wall with all the information on the marriage certificate and single 1901 census entry. These point me towards Scotland. Do any of you have any suggestions that may help? Is there anything I am missing?

Many thanks, apologies again for the detail on the post

Steve

[MonicaL]

Hard to get a lead on Benjamin Snr and wife Jane isn't it    There are so many name variants for Jane/Jean which can complicate searches www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jane.html

There are 2 wills on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a John MacArthur (worth searching on SP as M*cARthur to pick up on variants):

20/9/1900 - Wine and Spirit Merchant, Barrhead, d. 10/04/1900 at 33 Cogan Street there, testate
Will
Paisley Sheriff Court Wills
SC58/45/11

29/9/1885 - Wine and Spirit Merchant, 8 Crawford Street, Partick, d. 22/08/1885 at Partick, testate
Will
Glasgow Sheriff Court Wills
SC36/51/91

Might be worth checking out these Johns further, if nothing else to exclude them.

Monica

[MonicaL]

No sign of a Jane as a daughter for the Partick, Lanarkshire one. From 1881:

John Macarthur    43  Wine & Spirit Mercht b. Islay
Mary Macarthur 37
Sarah F Macarthur 14
Catherine Macarthur 9
Mary Macarthur 7
Margaret Macarthur 4
John Macarthur 2
Ann Macarthur 3 months
Mary Macfarlane 22

Address: Dumbarton Rd Meadowbank Pl, Partick Lanarkshire

Monica

[wivenhoe]

Is this the Census, 1901, entry that you are seeing?

Census England  1901  Ancestry    @ 6 Bright Terrace Handsworth Staffordshire
WILLIAMSON Martha   head  widow   65y   own means    b. Coventry
THOMAS Jeanie          head  marr.     24y   laundry         b. Scotland
THOMAS Benjamin      son   4m                                     b. Manchester Lancashire 

How do you place the arrival of Benjamin THOMAS and sister Jennie THOMAS at the orphanage at ~ 1903, and discharge ~  1916?

[MonicaL]

I can only see this entry so far in Wales 1881 for a Benjamin with father Philip www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXK-CWQM By the look of it though, there is a link on this FS entry to 1911 which potentially shows this Benjamin married and with family by 1911.

What was the occupation for father Philip on the 1900 marriage reg you have?

Monica

[StephenEThomas]

Hard to get a lead on Benjamin Snr and wife Jane isn't it    There are so many name variants for Jane/Jean which can complicate searches www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jane.html

There are 2 wills on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a John MacArthur (worth searching on SP as M*cARthur to pick up on variants):

20/9/1900 - Wine and Spirit Merchant, Barrhead, d. 10/04/1900 at 33 Cogan Street there, testate
Will
Paisley Sheriff Court Wills
SC58/45/11

29/9/1885 - Wine and Spirit Merchant, 8 Crawford Street, Partick, d. 22/08/1885 at Partick, testate
Will
Glasgow Sheriff Court Wills
SC36/51/91

Might be worth checking out these Johns further, if nothing else to exclude them.

Monica

It certainly is!

I've looked at both of these, and the Barrhead one is the closest I can find to a likely candidate, but the Jane/Jean that is referred to in the will is still present living with her sister in 1901, so contradicts the census entry in Birmingham in 1901. I had hoped to find her not still there in 1901!

Thanks

[StephenEThomas]

I can only see this entry so far in Wales 1881 for a Benjamin with father Philip www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKXK-CWQM By the look of it though, there is a link on this FS entry to 1911 which potentially shows this Benjamin married and with family by 1911.

What was the occupation for father Philip on the 1900 marriage reg you have?

Monica

Father Philip on the 1900 marriage certificate was listed as a French Polisher, but it seems like this was a very general/temporary unskilled profession?

I did find a Benjamin/Philip on the census but they were a farming family in Llandowror, and yes seemed to be married in 1911. Although this doesn't mean it isn't the same Ben, just very little evidence to link them

[StephenEThomas]

Is this the Census, 1901, entry that you are seeing?

Census England  1901  Ancestry    @ 6 Bright Terrace Handsworth Staffordshire
WILLIAMSON Martha   head  widow   65y   own means    b. Coventry
THOMAS Jeanie          head  marr.     24y   laundry         b. Scotland
THOMAS Benjamin      son   4m                                     b. Manchester Lancashire 

How do you place the arrival of Benjamin THOMAS and sister Jennie THOMAS at the orphanage at ~ 1903, and discharge ~  1916?

Yes, that's them. This was the starting point that then linked back to the all the other entries.

My father knew from their accounts that his father Ben and aunt Jean were in Marston Green Homes from around 2-3 years of age. As well as this we have a letter from the Children's home in 1918 to the recruitment office confirming Ben as being 2 years of age in 1903 when he came into the home. There is a Ben and Jennie in the 1911 records for the homes listed at the approximate right ages.

1916 is just guesswork on the basis that they would have moved on from the homes at around this age and would seem to have had homes and schooling later in the Edgbaston area. Ben listed his sister Jennie as next of kin in military records at an Edgbaston address.

[MonicaL]

Steve, hopefully something may come back relating to their time in the care system in Birmingham. This period is really hard in terms of records, with many lost or destroyed over the years.

I was looking around for possible deaths for mother. The closest I can see is this one in the last qrt of 1909 in West Derby: Jennie Thomas, aged 35. Ref 8b/ 268.

Monica