George Thomas Robinson - Bermondsey

[Pennines]

Lorna - where have you found a birth for a Sarah Ann Robinson, born in 1853, with a mother's maiden name of Kilbey please - as per your message?

I can't see one on the General Register Office Birth Index.

There is a birth for a Sarah Ann Robinson registered in 1853 in Bethnal Green, with a mother's maiden name of Weymond.

Does Sarah Ann ever marry? If so - I suggest you obtain her marriage certificate to get her father's name for starters. The couple living in Hargrave Square might not have anything to do with her.

[PaulineJ]

ROBINSON, SARAH  ANN     KILBEY 
GRO Reference: 1853  D Quarter in ST GEORGE THE MARTYR SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 116

ROBINSON, FREDERICK       KILBEY 
GRO Reference: 1852  J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE THE MARTYR SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 109

[Pennines]

Oh thank you Pauline -- so it's a different registration district from where the 'other' family were. They were living in Bermondsey with children born in Bethnal Green Registration District.

Lorna -- don't let those Robinsons on the 1861 census interfere with step by step research. Robinson is a common name and you firstly need Sarah Ann's marriage cert (sorry to bang on about it!)

[Leith Lass]

Hi Again
Thank you for posting the evidence for Sarah's birth and sorry to go on even more with this story.

I can appreciate your saying to locate a marriage certificate but it has not been easy with Sarah. On various censuses she has shown herself as single, married, head and widow. I do not believe that Sarah ever got married. Her 15 children were born as Robinson and christened as Wilkes over the period from 1872 to 1894.  One of those children was Thomas who is my husbands grandfather.

To add to the complication there is another family in the loop called the Wilkes. The head of that family was Thomas Peter Wilkes and his wife was Emma, they had 3 boys Charles, Thomas and Washington. Washington died at an early age.

I believe that Thomas Peter Wilkes was the father of all her 15 children. The evidence is that on the censuses 1881 to 1901 Sarah and her family lived in homes that were registered to Thomas Peter Wilkes on the Electoral Roll. Another link is that all the children were christened Wilkes and in later years the boys worked for Thomas Peter Wilkes in his Printing Company and progressed through the years to becoming Directors/Managers,

My husband's grandfather was christened Thomas Peter Wilkes Robinson so I think it is quite an obvious clue that the two families are connected. TP was then christened TPW

The final straw is that when I ordered Sarah Ann's death certificate one her sons, Henry, who witnessed the death put her father down as Thomas Peter Wilkes, Printer.  If TPW was her father, one it would be incest and two he would only have been 14 at the time of her birth. So Henry made a big mistake.

So as you can see I have never been able to find Sarah's true identity and I was hoping that Hargrave [Hargreave] Square would have been a link to her family. If I eventually solve this mystery it will be a miracle.

By the way Thomas Peter Wilkes, John's grandfather then changed his name in the early 1890s to Alan Macey hence we are all Macey now. Alan was a renowned composer of music and his song sheets can be found to this day on Ebay etc. Finally, my husband John was christened John Winston Wilkes Macey. The name Wilkes lives on.!!!!!!!!

[Leith Lass]

Can I say that the address of 13 Hargrave Square where Eliza and Robert lived with their children in 1861 was the address where Sarah Ann gave birth to her daughter Alice in 1872. That's why I keep coming back to Hargrave Square as a family connection but unable to link it so far.

[Pennines]

Oh my gosh Lorna - I need to go and lie down in a darkened room after reading that complicated story!

No wonder you are at your wits end with it. I hadn't realised that it was actually the SAME house on Hargrave Sq where the Robinson family lived and where Sarah Ann had a baby.

However - by the time of the 1871 census the Robinson family weren't at that address.

The name of those living at number 13 'Hargreave' Sq is difficult to decipher - it looks something like 'Foutham'.

[Leith Lass]

I know its been a nightmare.

As previously mentioned in 1861 I think it was Robert and Eliza [Schofield] living at 13 Hargrave Square. I don't think this is Sarah's family Robert and Eliza as her mother was [Kilbey].

I did find a brother for Sarah called Frederick he was born in 1852 but I am unable to find them with their parents in any 1861 census. 1871 is different as they will be a lot older and they probably flew the nest by then. So 1861 is quite crucial.

I think Sarah has been a pretty astute woman and she has led a merry dance all her life to the end. She is probably looking down on me laughing.

Still I wont give up.  Thank you once again for all your assistance. x

[PaulineJ]

Did you purchase the birth certificate for either sarah b 1853 or her brother?

[Leith Lass]

No I haven't purchased a birth cert for Sarah as I have gone down so many routes and so many Sarah's. I don't even know if this is the right one.

Would the cert really tell me anything more than the GRO.