Patterson and Dornans from Belfast

[aghadowey]

Yes, Jane named after childless aunt.

Here's the correct John & Jane Wilson in 1901-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Pottinger/Beechfield_Street/1215796/
daughter Edith Jane's birth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02220/1837629.pdf
In 1892 marriage John's occupation is commercial traveller which is very different from 1901 but closer to labourer in 1895.
Same family in 1911- Jane's sister Sarah transcribed as Pallerson which explains why I couldn't find her earlier.

Boarders listed with family in 1911 so this newspaper article makes sense-
Belfast Newsletter, 19 Jan.1899: ... December till the 2nd inst., and never paid anything during that time. His bill amounted to £1 4s. Mrs. Wilson, 40, Beechfield Street, said the prisoner came to her house in December, 1897, and remained two weeks, his bill amounting to 15s or 16s. He ...

An Edith Simpson at same address in 1924-
Northern Whig, 20 Oct.1924: ... Edith Simpson, 40 Beechfield Street; ...

[aghadowey]

Yes, Jane's daughter Edith Jane married Samuel Simpson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09911/5601936.pdf

son Richard born 1913-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01465/1597915.pdf

son John Wilson born 1914-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01414/1581349.pdf

son Samuel born 1916-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01347/1556019.pdf

son died only 2 days old in 1917-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/BurialSearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7661.33201
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01306/1540298.pdf

daughter Jane Lemon born 1918- informant was grandmother Jane Wilson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01266/1525446.pdf

[aghadowey]

Is there a way to access Drumbo Presbyterian Church and Church of Ireland baptism and marriage records? I think that would help me in finding out more about these Pattersons and other relations from that area if I had access to those records.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records
PRONI, Belfast have microfilmed many church records- see above link for details.

[DaveMcC]

Yes, Jane's daughter Edith Jane married Samuel Simpson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09911/5601936.pdf

son Richard born 1913-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01465/1597915.pdf

son John Wilson born 1914-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01414/1581349.pdf

son Samuel born 1916-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01347/1556019.pdf

son died only 2 days old in 1917-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/BurialSearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7661.33201
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01306/1540298.pdf

daughter Jane Lemon born 1918- informant was grandmother Jane Wilson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01266/1525446.pdf

Thanks again. I also found this on GRONI, could be the the same Edith Jane, Widowed, a marriage for a John Wright and widow and Edith Jane Simpson housekeeper widow:

Registration district: Lisburn
Place of marriage: Christ Church, Church of Ireland, Derriaghy, Lisburn
Date of marriage: 26th September 1934
Party 1 name(s): John Wright
Gender of party 1: Male
Age condition at marriage of party 1: Full, Widow
Rank or occupation: Soldier
Residence at time of marriage: Antrim Steet, Lisburn
Fathers name and occupation: Thomas Wright, Rougher
Party 2 name(s): Edith Jane Simpson
Gender of party 2: Female
Age condition at marriage of party 2: Full, Widow
Rank or occupation: Housekeeper
Residence at time of marriage: Bridge End, Derryaghy
Fathers name and occupation: John Wilson (I couldn't read occupation)

Also this, Northern Whig  Saturday 21 November 1936: "Simpson - November 19, 1936 at the County Antrim Infirmary, Lisburn. Elizabeth (Betty), dearly-beloved daughter of Edith Wright and the late Samuel Simpson Funeral from her residence, Kennel Lane, Antrim Road, Lisburn to-day (Saturday) at 2 p.m., to Derryaghy"

As that said Kennel Lane, I also found this on PRONI Wills: "Wright John of Kennel Lane Antrim Road Lisburn Antrim salesman died 21 February 1938 at Lisburn Probate Belfast 12 April to Isaac Edward Neill solicitor's manager. Effects £314 17s. 4d."

Would these be for the right Edith Jane and John Wright?

[aghadowey]

I found a bit more and it does look like you've found the right people.

Edith Jane Wilson (1895-aft.1938) m.(1912) Samuel Simpson (c1886-10 June 1930); m.(1934) John Wright (d.1938)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02220/1837629.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1912/09911/5601936.pdf
Belfast Telegraph, 5 Apr.1924: … Samuel Simpson, Beechfield Street, stated that on the 13th March accused took lodgings at witness's house. Prisoner said he was …
Northern Whig, 12 June 1930: SIMPSON— June 10, at his residence, Kosh [?], Tally na<ra [?], Lisburn, Samuel, dearly loved husband of Edith Simpson. Funeral to-day (Thursday), at 3 p.m., to Drumbo.
Belfast Newsletter. 3 Apr.1937: … regretted her sorrowing Father, Step-mother, Step-brothers, Step-sisters, and Uncles, Kennel Lane, Antrim Road, Lisburn. _ -Aprii 2, 1937, Annie, dearly- Sister of May Wright. Funeral from her sister's residence, 48, …  Lisburn, to-morrow (Sunday), … [John Wright's daughter from his previous marriage]
Belfast Telegraph, 22 Feb.1938: WRIGHT— February 21, 1938, at his residence, Kennel Lane, Antrim Road. Lisburn. John Wright, dearly-beloved husband of Edith. Funeral to-morrow (Wednesday), at 2-30 p.m., to Derriaghy Churchyard. Deeply regretted by his sorrowing Daughter, Son-in-law …
Wright John of Kennel Lane Antrim Road Lisburn Antrim salesman died 21 February 1938 at Lisburn Probate Belfast 12 April to Isaac Edward Neill solicitor's manager. Effects £314 17s. 4d.
An ancestry tree has Edith died 1965 but married to a David Simpson which is incorrect- https://www.ancestry.co.uk/genealogy/records/edith-jane-wilson-simpson-24-gcpthy
Known children-
1. Richard Simpson (1913)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01465/1597915.pdf
2. John Wilson Simpson (1914)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01414/1581349.pdf
3. Samuel Simpson (1916)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01347/1556019.pdf
4. Son (1917-1917)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01306/1540298.pdf
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/BurialSearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7661.33201
5. Jane Lemon Simpson (1918)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01266/1525446.pdf (informant- grandmother Jane Wilson)
6. Elizabeth “Betty” Simpson (c1926-1936)
Northern Whig, 21 Nov.1936: Simpson - November 19, 1936, at the County Antrim Infirmary, Lisburn, Elizabeth (Betty), dearly-beloved daughter of Edith Wright and the late Samuel Simpson. Funeral from her residence, Kennel Lane, Antrim Road, Lisburn to-day (Saturday) at 2 p.m., to Derryaghy.
GRONI's index gives her age as 10 years.

[DaveMcC]

Death of Samuel Lemon - informant Jane of Tullyard
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05926/4682784.pdf

I can’t see a marriage to find the connection.

Possibly married before 1845?

I was looking up some marriage records and I found these marriage records, and I wonder if its for Samuel Lemon and Janes sons?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11608/8272777.pdf

A double wedding on June 2nd 1864 in the Presbyterian Church, Drumbo:

William John Lemon and Margaret Gordon McMurray - Says he is living in Tullyard and father is Samuel Lemon? A farmer. Does it says Margaret is from Ballyaughlis? Robert Lemon was a witness.

Robert Lemon and Agnes McMaster, again for Robert, same location and father.

[Kiltaglassan]

A double wedding on June 2nd 1864 in the Presbyterian Church, Drumbo:

William John Lemon and Margaret Gordon McMurray - Says he is living in Tullyard and father is Samuel Lemon? A farmer. Does it says Margaret is from Ballyaughlis? Robert Lemon was a witness.

Nope....one on the 2nd June, the other on the 3rd June.

Yes, Ballyaughlis townland (as spelt locally)
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-upper/drumbeg-down-portion/drumbeg/ballyaghlis/


KG

[DaveMcC]

A double wedding on June 2nd 1864 in the Presbyterian Church, Drumbo:

William John Lemon and Margaret Gordon McMurray - Says he is living in Tullyard and father is Samuel Lemon? A farmer. Does it says Margaret is from Ballyaughlis? Robert Lemon was a witness.

Nope....one on the 2nd June, the other on the 3rd June.

Yes, Ballyaughlis townland (as spelt locally)
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-upper/drumbeg-down-portion/drumbeg/ballyaghlis/


KG

Yes one wedding was on the the 3rd of June, my mistake. Thanks on the townland name.

[DaveMcC]

I have been researching my Dornan's again and might have found out why I was unable to find them. This is my 3rd Great-Grandparents marriage: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09605/5483183.pdf

It says a Alexander and Margaret Crawford was present at the marriage. I looked them up and found this marriage for a Alexander Crawford and Margaret Dorman in 1856, both living in Drumbo at the time of marriage. Says her father is William Dorman, a farmer: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09513/5447983.pdf

I checked my DNA matches on ancestry for people who has Dorman on their tree and I got several matches who have Dormans from Drumbo and Tullyard, including two who have Alexander Crawford and Margaret Dorman. Their trees say Margaret's parents were William John Dorman (1810-1866) and Grace McCullough, see attached image.

What I would like to confirm is, could my 3rd Great-Grandmother's surname actually be Dorman not Dornan and the Alexander and Margaret Crawford at her and Samuel Warnock Patterson's wedding be the same as on the tree and Margaret is actually Elizabeth's sister?