Oliver P Finley - birth

[Spotted Pig]

Wow, thank you so much Oldohiohome. I am in awe of your sleuthing skills and jealous of the amount of information available in USA.

Sad that what became of Thomas A is unknown. I think this must have been quite common among seafarers. I have also wondered in the past how the families of itinerant hawkers etc knew what happened to family who never returned. 
So, in England, Charles has a son in law Henry Finley aged 19 when he married March 20th 1871. His father is given as Thomas (from my searches middle names rarely used at this time which is most unhelpful). No indication that Thomas is dead on the certificate. The witnesses are not family members. His wife's age is given as 18 but she was actually 20. In the census a few weeks later Henry's age is 20, his wife 18 (really 20) and my great grandmother 16 (really 18) (they are all together). In the census Henry's birth place is given as Brighton. I cannot find anything about him in England before his marriage, there are a few applications by him for a hawkers license in the 70's and he died before the next census was taken. If he was born around 1851 it is possible for Thomas A to have been his father (and curiously Charles was in Brighton in 1851 census). But then again it may be a coincidence that he was a Finley with father called Thomas. Annoyingly I cannot find any trace of any of the family after my great grandmothers birth in 1853 and 1866 when one of Charles' daughters married an Irishman (who did ALWAYS use his middle name which has been invaluable for corroboration of baptisms and marriages). I have not found anything that could be Thomas A or indeed Thomas, father of Henry, anywhere.

I too feel it most likely that the Philadelphian sea captain is Oliver's father.

There is plenty more in your reply for me to look into. Thanks again.

[Spotted Pig]

So, I have trawled through nearly 1300 'finley' entries in the Virginian press looking for birth notices. There are none. Lots of adverts, legal stuff and shipping news. And some snippets of information.

Having mortgaged the house late 1828 they were offering it to rent in early 1830. In 1832, after Oliver's death, Ann was taking in boarders but that cannot have raised much or lasted long as a few months later the administrator sold the house contents, even down to kitchen pans, and the house was sold by the trustees.

I spotted the attached notice. William Wilson was an Alexandria resident and either he or his father was a "seller of British goods who buys tobacco" in 1775. The other named partners of the company are descendants of Glaswegian Tobacco Barons. Most of these barons suffered substantial losses in the War of Independence but not Robert Findlay (spelling of the name inconsistant)... "One of Robert Findlay's uncles cannily "did the rounds" of the ruined merchants, buying their Glasgow tobacco stocks from them at double the original cost. The merchants were happy at this, until the market price soared well past that level – with supplies no longer available." (Source: https://electricscotland.com/webclans/minibios/f/findlay_boturich.htm)
When the merchants amalgamated and set up an office in London I haven't been able to find out. The London office was in Old Broad Street and was a 3 minute walk from the newsagent business in Cornhill and 12 minute walk from the Seabrook premises. Robert Findlay died in 1802. He is NOT Oliver's father. He had a son, Robert, who became a partner in the business and 3 daughters. But I am thinking Oliver probably was a relation of his.

Findlay, Bannatyne & Co became insolvent in 1826 and Robert jnr's estate was sequestrated under the Bankruptcy Act. If Oliver had invested in the company or monies held by them that may account for his financial problems. A second Findlay, Bannatyne and Co was set up and it was still trading in 1928.

If Oliver is related to this family and was born in Britain I would have expected to have found a baptismal record. I haven't given up on the idea that he may have been born in America but for now I am changing tack. I am going to delve into the Findlay family and see if that throws up anything useful.

[oldohiohome]

I'll add that information to what I have, so I can stay on track.

I found a few traces of Thomas Finley before 1785. Here are the links below. I could access them even when signed out, but if you can't get them, let me know and I will post them somewhere else.

The first time I looked at the 30 Nov 1769 advertisement for the sloop Newry going from Philadelphia to Newry, I thought it must be a return trip. But I just noticed that the other one from that year is dated 9 Oct 1769 in Charleston, SC. I don't think he could have gone from Charleston to Phila  to Newry and back to Phila in 7 weeks in 1769. But maybe the Newry had come to Phila with a different captain, if they did things like that.

I was hoping Newry would be a hint to his origins in the British Isles. There are a lot of Finleys in Co. Down on the Freeholders Lists of 1796. But I didn't check on the map to see how close they were to Newry. There was an Alexander Finley in Rostrevor, which would be handy if you were sailing out of Newry, but there were no occupations on the Lists.

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9 Oct 1769, Charleston, a claim against the Diana, of which a Thomas Finley was master
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96846934/a-claim-against-the-diana-of-which-he-w/

30 Nov 1769, Philadelphia, the Newry, from Philadelphia to Newry
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96834066/pennsylvania-gazette-philadelphia-30/

1772, Philadelphia, Polly and Peggy, Philadelphia to Kingston, Jamaica
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96833267/dunlap-and-claypooles-american-daily-ad/
[there were a few more ads for him and this ship - looking for freight and cargo, I think]

1774, Charleston, advertising for stolen property
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96847060/1774-charleston-his-property-stolen/

1802, Is this Oliver going from Lisbon to Philadelphia?
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96868468/oliver-finley-maybe-from-lisbon-to-phila/

1803, Is this Oliver arriving at Liverpool?
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96868785/1803-oliver-maybe-arrived-liverpool/

1830, Charleston, Oliver P Finley, had not been a resident of the state for two years. Tried to vote.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96834479/charleston-mercury-8-dec-1830-page-2n/

1831, Charleston, Oliver was of Alexandria when he died. I
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/96846679/oliver-was-of-alexandria-when-he-died/

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and I could only access the OCR scans at
https://www.irishnewsarchive.com/ so I don't even know what port this man was working out of:

1768, Belfast Newsletter
June 7, 1768, Sloop Nancy, recently overhauled, Alexander Finley, Master
June 24, 1768, Alexander Finley, Master

They had the Belfast Newsletter for that era. I don't know if there was a Newry paper in 1760-1770.

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thoughts, etc.:
1799 - Thomas Finley dies. 1800 - Oliver Finley marries. Is there a cause and effect connection? Did the whole family go [back?] to London?

1800 Census of Philadelphia. Looking for a widow of Thomas Finley. - There is no female Finley as head of a household.

1810 Census of Philadelphia and District of Columbia - Oliver Finley not found.

1830 Census of Alexandria - Oliver Finley not found [now I see they had mortgaged the house and were on hard times, so that might explain it]

1831 - Oliver Finley dies. 1831 - Thomas A Finley selling slaves in Louisiana. Again, is there a cause and effect? were they Oliver's slaves? Do you have an exact date for Thomas' being in Louisiana?

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Any idea who this lady is?
1830, Alexandria DC, p 266
Elizabeth Fenley
1 male under 5
1 female under 5
1 female 10 to 14
1 female 20 to 29
1 female 40 to 49
no slaves

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHGB-H38

and, less likely, this free black woman:
1830, Alexandria DC, p 234
Leonora Finley household
1 free black female 10 to 23
1 free black female over 55

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHGB-441

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If Thomas Finley captained the ship Newry back to Newry in 1769, he could have waved at my gr gr gr grandfather as sailed up Carlingford Lough. They were in Ballintur, Co. Down, just south of Killowen Point, but within view of the water.

[Spotted Pig]

Thanks Oldohiohome. I'll go through those sources at the weekend as a bit brain dead now. I have Oliver importing things like iron from Sweden, salt from Portugal, hardware, agricultural implements, grain, fashionable clothes and exporting all around the Atlantic. Anything really apart from livestock - unless you count passengers. I think it most likely he had a share in the ship he was sailing rather than total ownership. After 1812 war he was usually on the Boston but I also found him on Fair Trader (Moses Myers had a ship of the same name in 1798).

[Spotted Pig]

Seeing the word packet I thought that this was a fixed route between Philadelphia and Newry but seems it was just the name of the ship. The Diana was unfit for seas and so Finley would have been looking for another ship. I think it likely he took command in America. The Newry Packet was taking flaxseed to Newry. It would have picked up a cargo for the return crossing and this would not necessarily have been from Newry. Importing flaxseed was expensive. Some Irish importers offset some of the cost by exporting linen direct to America. In Irish-America trade 1660 – 1783 Thomas Truxes says in the 5 years ending 1769 only Belfast showed a positive balance. Dublin's flaxseed import exceeded linen export by 30%, Derry's import was twice the export and Newry's was 'a dismal 4 to 1'.

Ships from Ireland to Early America, 1623 to 1850 by David Dobson only lists a few departures for America from Ireland by the Newry Packet:
Captain J. Montgomery, arrived in Philadelphia from Londonderry, in May 1769
Captain Charles Robinson
Newry to Philadelphia in 1767
Londonderry to Philadelphia in 1769
Newry to Philadelphia in 1770
Warrenpoint, Newry to Philadelphia with passengers on 15 April 1771, arrived in Philadelphia in June 1771

There is no Finley recorded departing for America in this period. So having sailed up Carlingford Lough, waving to your folks on the way, he must've returned to America via another, non Irish port. I think it unlikely that he was from Newry.

1802 and 1803. Yes that is Oliver.

Alexander Finley, Master of the sloop Nancy. Haven't come across him before will keep him in mind.

1831 Thomas selling slaves. This was in a footnote reference for chapter 3 of “From Tally-Ho to Forest Home” by William D Reeves. Sale was to Rillieux and Fleming on 3 Feb 1831 so just prior to Oliver's death.

Thomas was also seems to have gone into business as a merchant. The attached from late 1829. Note that there still a relationship with the Myers family.

No idea who Elizabeth or Leonora are.

[Spotted Pig]

An 1817 London Directory lists:
Findlay, Bannatyne & Co in New Court, Broad Street
Findlay R & G.H. & Co, Silk manufacturers.  Adam's Court, Broad Street. Although in Broad Street this is a different Robert and his son George Henry. They were declared bankrupt in 1818.
Findlay A. Sail maker and ships chandler East la stairs, Bermondsey. Archibald Finley was born in Leith, Scotland 1754. The family has been extensively researched, forwards, backwards and sideways by Pam Griffiths (The Findlays of Leith and London and their Kettle Descendants (genealogycrank.co.uk) ).
Finlay, George Taylor (sic) 66 Fenchurch Street
Finlay, Hodgson & Co Merchants St Helen's Place, Bishopsgate  A branch of James Finlay & Co.

Oliver would probably have know all of these people. He is not in the immediate family of any of them but probably is in the extended family of at least one.

Findlay, Bannatyne & Co whose origins were among the pre-revolution Tobacco Barons of Glasgow (mentioned previously in this topic).

Finlay, Hodgson & Co Merchants St Helen's Place, Bishopsgate James Finlay (born 1727 near Glasgow) started out as a weaver eventually raising enough money to become a merchant and manufacturer. On his death the company was taken over by his 17 year old son Kirkman who expanded the business. Kirkman campaigned, successfully, for the break up of the East India Company's monopoly. Eventually they had branches in Manchester (1799), Heligoland (1807), London (1809), Malta (1809), The Bahamas (1805), NY (?), New Orleans(?), Charleston (?) & Bombay (1816).

Findlay A. Sail maker and ships chandler East la stairs, Bermondsey. There are several facts about this family which suggest if they are not related to Oliver then they should be!

Archibald was born in Leith (near Edinburgh) and his father, Alexander, also was a weaver although not related to James Finlay as far as I know). Obviously there is his occupation of sail maker and ships chandler. One of his sisters married a Grieg. There are lots of ship masters and sailors around Leith called Greig and the name Philp is also common.

Pam relates a family story that Archibald had shares in two ships called Findlay and Archibald. Having previously discovered that ships were sometimes called the same names I cannot be definitive that these are the ships in question but

Feb 6 1784 ship Findlay arrived in Kingston with 173 barrels of flour from Glasgow. The ship Fame had arrived in Kingston 2 weeks earlier on 21st Jan with 39 Barrels of Flour from London.

In 1798 the Baptist Mary Prior was a passenger on the unseaworthy Fame. She was rescued by the Ship Archibald 600 miles from America. The Archibald, Captain Macey, was a sixty-ton fishing boat. On March 15, 1798, the Archibald docked in Philadelpia without a single member of the crew or passengers lost.

Oliver Finley, Captain of Fair American left Philadelphia in convoy 24 June 1898.

Archibald had a son who was an engraver and map maker. Alexander Findlay (1788 – 1870) was also a founding member of the Royal Geographical Society (1830). His son Alex George was a hydrographer, engraver, publisher, geographer, chart maker and draughtsman – phew! Oliver's son Charles gave his occupation as engraver in 1841.

[Spotted Pig]

Meanwhile back in Philadelphia...

There is an Anthony Finley, famous for the maps he published later in life but who started out around 1809 with a Medical Book-Store and publishing medical and scientific books. “Not much is known about his life”. (Family trait?). His bookshop and publishing house were on the SE corner of 4th and Chestnut Street. Yes, Chestnut Street. Where Thomas Finley was living in 1790.

I don't think you wake up one day and say I am going to be a medical book-store owner. I expect Anthony either had a doctor in the family or possibly he learnt his trade at a company like C & A Conrad & Co. 30 Chestnut Street. They published The Philadelphia Medical and Physical Journal in 1804, 1805 and 1808. C & A Conrad failed in 1812.

Among the authors Anthony published at this time was Charles Bell an eminent Scottish doctor who in the early 1800s was struggling to establish himself in London.

Chestnut Street was the centre of publishing in Philadelphia while Paternoster Row, where Oliver and Ann were residing in 1813, was the centre of the London publishing trade. Also remember Oliver was in partnership with a Newsagent in Cornhill until 1814.

Anthony was producing maps in the 1820s around the same time as Alex Findlay was making his mark in London. “Most of Finley's cartographic material was borrowed from European sources.”

A handful of websites give dates of circa 1790 – 1840 for Anthony but most repeat the same info almost verbatim giving dob 1784 and death 9th June 1836.

There is a record for a baptism of an Anthony Finley on 1 August 1784 at St Michael's & Zion Church to parents James and Mary Finley. This church is in Mt Airy and 10 miles from Chestnut Street. This could be him but given paucity of data equally might not be. Find a grave has a record for an Anthony, buried with his parents and a grandmother, who died on June 9 1836 – obviously where the date came from but this cannot be the map maker because he was only 32 when he died. Maybe his brother's family?

Anthony Finley sold his map plates to Samuel Augustus Mitchell in 1831 who re-used them. James Hamilton Young who engraved many of Finley's maps worked with Mitchell from 1831 until the 1860s. It would seem Finley was winding down his business around the time that Oliver died and his administrator was dealing with his estate.

It's hard to believe that this is all coincidence!

And finally – for now at least. Shortly after their marriage Oliver captained the ship Hindustan. I have found  a couple of US immigration records for Ann aboard the Hindoston dated 10-26-1802 and 9-21-1801 so it would appear that, at least early in the marriage, she was travelling sometimes with her husband.

[Spotted Pig]

Although it hasn't helped me in my search for Oliver the following info may be useful for other researchers:

A little more digging has revealed a second Anthony Finley who died on 9th June 1836!  He was a 60 year old quaker.  "Pennsylvania Deaths and Burials, 1720-1999", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:H58G-QJT2 : 10 July 2020). Unlikely as it seems it is possible for them to have both died on the same day, especially if they were related in some way, as Philly was in the middle of a thypus pandemic in 1836. An age of 60 would give a birth date of 1777 making the 1784 birth registration doubtful and possibly suggesting yet another Anthony. I have found the elder Anthony in the 1820 census and the younger in the 1830 census.

Anthony Finley was in business by 1809 but he does not appear in the Philadelphia Directory until 1813. He is still in the 1835/6 directory although his book-store is now described as upstairs. At the end of his life Anthony was heavily involved with the ASC. In BLACK SKIN, WHITE MONEY: THE TRANSATLANTIC PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN TO RECOLONIZE WEST AFRICA 1786 - 1863 by DANIEL JASON DEGGES  2020 Anthony Finley's support of the ASC and his fake map of the colony is described. And tantalisingly - “While his fortune eventually found its way into the coffers of the ASC years after his death...”

In 1807 the US shot itself in the foot with The Embargo Act which banned imports and exports. This must have been devastating for trans-Atlantic sea captains like Oliver. Might explain the diversification in his business interests around that time. In London the printing business was regulated by the Stationers Guild. The partnership with stationer William Martin would allow him access to the market which would be essential if he were involved with Anthony Finley in some way.

The 32 year old Anthony, his parents James and Mary and grandmother are buried in the cemetery of Old Pine Street Presbyterian Church. Also recorded in the cemetery are Elizabeth Finley Winnemore 1756 – 1824 (married Philip Winnemore 1775), Mrs Finley 1749 – 1814 and Mrs Finley 1751 – 1816.

[Spotted Pig]

Not a lot but here's what I've found on Thomas Finley.

During the American War of Independence Thomas Finley captained the armed Brig Pennsylvania Privateer General Smallwood. At the time of commissioning (1 Dec 1780) Finley was described as age 40, five feet eight inches tall, with a sandy complexion. https://www.awiatsea.com/Privateers/G/General%20Smallwood%20Pennsylvania%20Brigantine%20[Finley].pdf

The General Smallwood had a Letter of Marque. “A letter-of-marque could capture an enemy vessel, and had the license to do so, if one came into her way. However the primary purpose of a letter-of-marque was to deliver her cargo. A privateer’s primary purpose was to make prizes of enemy vessels.” AWIATSEA.COM

If Oliver is Thomas' son it seems probable that he would have been born in US.

Other vessels associated with a Captain Finley: 1796 Sloop President and Sloop Dominica; 1797 Schooner Betsey of Boston, 1798 Sloop Ruby.

Scott and Finley, merchants are listed in 1785 Philadelphia directory. Unable to find any more info on them.

In the 1790 census Thomas is at 45 Walnut Street. There are 2 males >16, 3 males <16 and 4 females.

James, Francis and Thomas Finley all listed in Philadelphia directory of 1791 and 1793. James is a schoolmaster, Francis a shopkeeper and Thomas a sea captain. Only James present in 1794. Francis died the previous year but where was Thomas? Last entry for Thomas in the directory was 1793. No Finleys listed in 1796 but James back in 1797 and through to at least 1814.

Also occasionally appearing in directory... William (editor of American Naval and Commercial Register at 39 Chestnut in 1797; a representative for Pennsylvania in 1794 and Treasurer of US Mint in 1814)  and Samuel (1798 Publisher of American Naval and Commercial Register). The Register was a semi-weekly newspaper from 1795 to 1798.