ORR's Mullabrack/Armagh

[popsit]

Hello
I have been on this message board many years ago and thought I will try it again as I am still with my brick wall. I am still looking for parents, birth or anything that pertains to my query. Because of the great fire records were lost, however I have been told I must now try parish records as  some originals will/might be able to be found.Here goes.
I have a William Orr marrying a Mary Toal on the 21st of April 1853 in the parish church of Mullabrack Armagh. He was 37 years old so his birth would be around 1816 (so many years each side).The Orr's lived in and around this area. I also have an 1810 marriage of a William orr marrying a Mary Quin/quinn in the same area. I have been led to believe these maybe my william's parent. On the marriage cert above William's father is also William and is a farmer. His wife Mary's father was Alex Toal a labourer possibly on the Orr farm. I have everything going forward and have spent lots of time trying to find any little scrap going backwards.Please if there is anyone who maybe has access to parish records can I ask for your help.Anything woud be very much appreciated.
I have no siblings for William marrying Mary Toal. Feel free to ask me any question if I have left anything out that might help. Fingers very much crossed.

[eileenwilson]

The marriage in 1853 indicates that William was from Ballygroobany in the parish of Mullabrack.  Mary was from Ballyloughan, Richhill.

By the time of Griffiths Valuation (taken about 1863-63 in County Armagh), there is only a Mary Orr in Ballygroobany who may be the Mary above or may be William's mother.

Tenant
Family Name 1   ORR
Forename 1   MARY
Landlord
Family Name 2   HILL
Forename 2   DAVID
Location
County   ARMAGH
Barony   FEWS, LOWER
Union   ARMAGH
Parish   MULLAGHBRACK
Townland   BALLYGROOBANY
Place Name   BALLYGROOBANY
Place Type   TOWNLAND
Publication Details
Position on Page   5
Printing Date   1864
Act   15&16
Sheet Number   13
Map Reference   4

By the 1869 revision, the land is marked as vacant.

[popsit]

Hi,
First thanks lots for your reply however I should have mentioned that I did have that valuation and it looks like it could be my Mary, however as you know with genealogy one must prove as much as one can that the person is yours. I also think I have the copy of her death got from irish free records but it tells me nothing except again it could be mine as age definitely fits. For fear of being greedy I might have to put another request on for any info regarding where she maybe buried. I have been led to believe that she maybe in a very old cemetery in the area.Also possibly buried with or near her husband William who it looks like has died before her as she is a widow. Her son I speak of in my query came to NZ after 1861 as that is the time his last son was born.His wife came out in 1864. There are so many questions to ask hence asking for help. All I need is a little thread then hopefully I can run with it. Where did Mary (the wife who came out here in 1864 for instance where did she live until 1864 was it on the Orr farm, apparently the Orr,s were fairly well off. Once again thank you for your time answering, your answer had a wee bit more than the valuation I have.

Carol Orr/NZ

[wivenhoe]

This is not very clear. Can you please give full name to people.

"Her son I speak of in my query came to NZ after 1861 as that is the time his last son was born.His wife came out in 1864. "

Can you identify the birth of the child born  (where?) 1861....father's name...mother's name.

Whose wife came out (to NZ?) in 1864?

[eileenwilson]

Original query is for a William Orr and a Mary Toal married in 1853 who later went out to New Zealand as outlined by original poster.

[eileenwilson]

Griffiths shows that Mary Orr only had a house, no land but Mary may have moved to that house after William died or son William left for NZ so likely only had a small tenancy.

[popsit]

Original query is for a William Orr and a Mary Toal married in 1853 who later went out to New Zealand as outlined by original poster.

Thank you Eileen
carol orr

[popsit]

Ok,
Mainly for Eileen. The marriage of William (possible middle name John) Orr and Mary (no middle name) in 1853 are the two I am working on.They had three children all born in Armagh Mullabrack, they are as follows:
John William b. 1858 mullabrack
Mary Ann b. 1854 as above
Thomas b. 1861 as above
I do not have any birth certs as Im told I wont be able to get them.William above was the one who came to NZ for gold mining but left that and joined the military settlers war against maori. He was promised one acre in town and fifty acres in rural area in liu of wages.I am looking for his parents back in Ireland and have found a William Orr marrying a Mary Quin/nn in 1810 2nd August Mullabrack.the curate was a william Barker.Because of the fire that happened I am told many records were burnt making it hard to find anyone.Getting back to the William married in 1853 his father was also william and a farmer. I would like to know if the Mary in the griffths valuation 1863 was my Mary and mother to William who married in 1853. By that time, if she is mine, because she was a widow by then had  her husband also been a  William  (father to the one in the 1853 marriage) .All boiled down I am hoping to find out the parents of the William married in 1853 and maybe his siblings and which cemetery might they be buried in. I hope this is clearer

Carol Orr/NZ

[aghadowey]

I think you are going about this in the wrong way or else you do have further information that you haven't posted yet. You need to start with the facts and work back step by step but it's possible much of the information you need to search in Irish records will be in N.Z. records.

William Orr (c1816), son of William Orr a farmer, m.(21 Apr.1853 Mullabrack Church of Ireland) Mary Toal (c1832)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09441/5420329.pdf
1. Mary Ann Orr (1854 Mullabrack)
2. John William Orr (1858 Mullabrack)
3. Thomas Orr (1861 Mullabrack)

The marriage gives William's residence as Ballygroobany- it may not be where he was born or where his parents lived but it's where he was living when he got married.
What details are listed for William's birthdate/place & parents on his death certificate?

There will be no birth certificates for the children born in Ireland since civil registration of births didn't start until 1864. For earlier dates you need to see if church records survive.

Since Orr is a very common surname in this area you'll need to be careful or else you could end up tracing the wrong family.