German translation / interpretation help: 1834 birth record

[Lambendsor (aka IGS)]

I just received this transcription of a birth record and can kind of understand it, but I'd appreciate a more exact translation/interpretation of it, if possible. Many thanks!

[Karen McDonald]

Hi,

It is a baptism record.

Here is the German text:

Auszug aus dem Taufregister
Jahrgang 1834  Seite 101-102  Nr.:5
Täufling  Carl Gottlieb, geb. 10. April 1834
4tes Kind, uneheliches Kind
2ter Sohn
- Geburtsschein ausgestellt Nr. 48, d. 5. Juni 1854

Eltern   Vater:
als Vater ist angezeigt
Joh. Gottlob Schoenherr,
ein Schmied

Mutter:
Johanna Rosina, weibl.
Andreas Birckner, gewesener
Häuslers und Schneiders in Kleinpelsen,
hinterlassene älteste Tochter

Taufpaten
1. Johann Friedrich Gottlob Birckner,
Häusler in Zschanewitz,
2. Jgfr. Johanna Christina, des Mstr.
Gottlob Große, Häuslers u. Wagners
in Großpelsen, älteste Tochter
3. Karl Gottlieb, des Gotdhelt Lippert,
Häuslers in Kleinpelsen, ehel. 2ter Sohn, Juv.

Sonstige Angaben  Tag u. Stunde der Geburt:  der 10. April , abend 1/2 6 Uhr

Tauftag:  der 13. April 1834



And the English translation:

Extract from the baptismal register

Year 1834   Page 101-102   No.:5

Person baptised    Carl Gottlieb, born 10th April 1834
4th child, illegitimate child
2nd son
- Birth certificate issued No. 48, dated 5th June 1854

Parents     Father:
is indicated as father
Joh. Gottlob Schoenherr,
a blacksmith

Mother:
Johanna Rosina, fem. (I don't know why she, as mother, is shown as being female!  )
Andreas Birckner, former
cottager and tailor in Kleinpelsen,
surviving eldest daughter
(I think this simply means that the mother, Johanna, is the daughter of Andreas Birckner, deceased.)

Godparents
1. Johann Friedrich Gottlob Birckner,
cottager in Zschanewitz,
2. (virgin) Johanna Christina, of Mstr.  (Meister?)
Gottlob Große, cottager and wainwright.
in Großpelsen, eldest daughter
3. Karl Gottlieb, of Gotdhelt Lippert,
cottager in Kleinpelsen, legitimate 2nd son, juv.

Other information     Day and hour of birth: 10th April, evening at 5:30.

Baptism day: 13 April 1834



So Johanna Christina (Große) is the oldest daughter of Gottlob Große. "Virgin" in the this case (translation of Jungfrau) probably means unmarried.

Karl (Lippert) is the legitimate 2nd son, juvenile (not sure what age was the limit for juvenile back then) of G. Lippert.

I am not entirely sure about "Häusler". Maybe davecapps can help with this and the other bits I am unsure about.

All the best,
Karen

 

[fiddlerslass]

From


In Their Words Volume IV German

In Their Words: A Genealogist’s Translation Guide to Polish, German, Latin, and Russian Documents – Volume IV: German

by William F. Hoffman and Jonathan D. Shea

 Häusler, which Hoffman and Shea define as, “cottager, peasant with a small house and garden and a livestock (e.g., a goat), but not enough to support a family.”

[Zefiro]

Mutter:
Johanna Rosina, weibl.
Andreas Birckner, gewesener
Häuslers und Schneiders in Kleinpelsen,
hinterlassene älteste Tochter

And the English translation:

Mother:
Johanna Rosina, fem. (I don't know why she, as mother, is shown as being female!  )
Andreas Birckner, former
cottager and tailor in Kleinpelsen,
surviving eldest daughter
(I think this simply means that the mother, Johanna, is the daughter of Andreas Birckner, deceased.)

Karen, it's not weibl(ich), but weihl(...). I don't know the exact word, but it surely means deceased or the late. Another important clue is the use of hinterlassene, meaning left behind. This also tells you the parent is deceased.
But even without this explanation, you correctly understood that Andreas was no longer alive. 

[davecapps]

The Word is Weiland / Weihland
In this case Deceased
Other  meanings once being, earlier etc

[Lambendsor (aka IGS)]

Thanks, everyone!

Is there anything unusual in the wording regarding the father? I'm beginning to suspect that he might not have been the birth father, after all - mainly because the only DNA matches I have with Schönherrs in their trees are descended from Carl Gottlieb Schönherr b.1834.

And should I assume that the other three children were Johanna Rosina Birckner's, but not necessarily Johann Gottlob (or Gottlieb) Schönherr's?

I might have to ask some follow-up questions from the parish, but I hope that scans of the church records show up on Archion, eventually, as I'd much rather pore over them myself.

[Karen McDonald]

Many thanks to Fiddlerslass for clarification re: Häusler.

Thanks also to Zefiro and davecapps! I could only see "weibl.". 

So that means that the mother was dead at the time of the little lad's baptism? 

Karen, it's not weibl(ich), but weihl(...). I don't know the exact word, but it surely means deceased or the late. Another important clue is the use of hinterlassene, meaning left behind. This also tells you the parent is deceased.
But even without this explanation, you correctly understood that Andreas was no longer alive. 

Hi Zefiro,

I understand what "hinterlassene" means. I understand it in this case as referring to the father of the mother, though, i.e. that Johanna Birckner's father was deceased. (I don't know why they have to make the structure of the info so complicated!   )
I suppose we should be thankful that they name her parents, though (i.e. the grandparents of the lad being baptised).
However, due to reading "weibl." (as opposed to "weihl."), I didn't realise that the mother of the little lad was dead, too.

[Karen McDonald]

Thanks, everyone!

Is there anything unusual in the wording regarding the father? I'm beginning to suspect that he might not have been the birth father, after all - mainly because the only DNA matches I have with Schönherrs in their trees are descended from Carl Gottlieb Schönherr b.1834.

And should I assume that the other three children were Johanna Rosina Birckner's, but not necessarily Johann Gottlob (or Gottlieb) Schönherr's?

I might have to ask some follow-up questions from the parish, but I hope that scans of the church records show up on Archion, eventually, as I'd much rather pore over them myself.

Maybe the other RChatters can help more on this one.

I am not clued-up on the finer points of how the info in these documents was presented, I'm afraid.  It would certainly interest me to know whether the other children mentioned were his or hers, though!
 
All it says is that Joh. is shown as the father - whether he really was or not is another matter. Also, the babe was illegitimate.

Sounds like a complicated situation...

[Lambendsor (aka IGS)]

Wait - now I'm confused: am I to assume that Johanna Rosina died after giving birth to Carl Gottlieb? And that the "weihl[and]" refers to her and not Andreas? Is it possible that the line breaks in the transcription make that point unclear?

Thanks for bearing with me!