Down - 1821 Census?

[Colin Y]

Can SKS help me with either a look up of pentlands in the 1821 Census or advice on accessing it?

I have just received a copy of a book which refers to the 1821 census incessantly and seems to suggest that there is loads of data on families in Tullylish Parish to be read there.

news to me!

Any guidance gratefully appreciated.

Colin

[OTTO]

FamilySearch® International Genealogical Index™ v5.0
International Genealogical Index 
   
1.  VALENTINE PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 07 DEC 1860 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
2.  EDWARD PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Birth: About 1786 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
3.  MARGARET PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Birth: About 1831 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
4.  John Pentland - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Marriage: About 1838 Tullylish Parish, Banbridge, Down, Ireland [Remove]
5.  JOSEPH PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 23 JAN 1842 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
6.  STEWARD PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Marriage: 12 SEP 1833 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
7.  CATHERINE PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 16 OCT 1836 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
8.  MRS. BETTY PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Marriage: 1817 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
9.  ELIZA PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 12 JUN 1836 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
10.  FANNY PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Birth: About 1827 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
11.  THOS. PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Marriage: 07 NOV 1845 0315, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
12.  JAMES PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Birth: 1820 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
13.  CATHERINE PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Birth: About 1829 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
14.  ROBERT PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 23 JUL 1858 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
15.  ELIZABETH PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Marriage: 30 JUL 1858 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
16.  Sarah Pentland - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Marriage: 24 DEC 1865 Tullylish Parish, Banbridge, Down, Ireland [Remove]
17.  MOSES PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 08 MAY 1856 Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
18.  MARY PENTLAND - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Birth: About 1833 Gilford, Tullylish, Down, Ireland [Remove]
19.  Mrs John Pentland - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Marriage: About 1838 Tullylish Parish, Banbridge, Down, Ireland


Info sourced at:  http://www.familysearch.org

OTTO

[Colin Y]

Otto

Sorry to have taken so long to reply.

I was really looking for info on the 1821 census.

I have all the IGI info you offered me already and not unusually some of it is 'piffle'! - well not 100% accurate...

I really do want to find out anything I can about the 1821 census and I need lookups in it in Down and Armagh for Pentlands, if SVKS sees this and can help.

If thats you, thanks.

Colin

[Christopher]

Otto

Sorry to have taken so long to reply.

I was really looking for info on the 1821 census.

I have all the IGI info you offered me already and not unusually some of it is 'piffle'! - well not 100% accurate...

I really do want to find out anything I can about the 1821 census and I need lookups in it in Down and Armagh for Pentlands, if SVKS sees this and can help.

If thats you, thanks.

Colin

Colin,

I feel you were a bit short with OTTO after so much work done, even though it was providing you with information you already have in your possession.
I suppose OTTO is partly to blame. You should have been told what was available and asked if you would like it to be sent to you. I do agree with you about IGI. They have a habit of repeating themselves so the same name is mentioned several times. It surprises me they have not noticed this fact.

All the Best, Chris

[Colin Y]

Hi Christopher

I only emailed him out of courtesy when I realised that i hadnt thanked him and i did thank him.

The comment 'piffle' was not directed at him, as you evidently appreciated.

If you look at my original question it was about the 1821 Census. His reply sadly had no connection with the question...

... so, how so 'short'?

I have read it again and if its read in part and not in whole perhaps it might seem short but when its read as a whole I feel it is not and you clearly see the message is not critical of Otto, though, I must submit, it could have been.

Are you reacting fairly?

Colin

[OTTO]

Hi Colin,

I should have said in my previous posting that the Government of Ireland census's that were taken of the all of Ireland in the years 1821~1831~1841~1851 were almost completely destroyed in 1922 in a fire at the P.R.O. (Public Record Office) in Dublin. Only fragments of some County Antrim are left of the 1851 census to my knowledge.
Even worse the census records for the years 1861~1871~1881 and 1891 were completely destroyed earlier, by order of the Irish government .

What this means is that the earliest surviving complete census records are for 1901 and 1911.

I gave any info I could find on the name you sought, for the area given.
No offence taken, but I do feel we all need to welcome what input we receive,whether we already have that info or not.
Too often, many postings go unanswered. We all need to supply as much information as possible in order for others to try to help us with our research.

Good luck with your quest
OTTO

[Christopher]

Hi Christopher

I only emailed him out of courtesy when I realised that i hadnt thanked him and i did thank him.

The comment 'piffle' was not directed at him, as you evidently appreciated.

If you look at my original question it was about the 1821 Census. His reply sadly had no connection with the question...

... so, how so 'short'?

I have read it again and if its read in part and not in whole perhaps it might seem short but when its read as a whole I feel it is not and you clearly see the message is not critical of Otto, though, I must submit, it could have been.

Are you reacting fairly?

Colin

Hei Colin,

It only takes a short time to write a reply. You replied promptly to me. Otto wrote to you on 13th November and you deigned to reply to him yesterday. I realise you apologised. Were you so busy that you were unable to spare a few minutes and send a short acknowledgement at an earlier stage? `I appreciate we all let things slide from time to time. I am as guilty as anyone at times. However I realise the amount of time and effort OTTO put into his message to you. If you scroll down at the site below you will see that I too put considerable time and effort into lengthy lists (this one requires more work) I feel under the circumstances I was not being all that harsh in my reaction to your letter. If you had omitted the words I have all the IGI info you offered me already it might not have been so upsetting to OTTO after his great effort. Few of us have not sent information that was not that requested at one time or another. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,97203.30.html

All the Best, Chris

[Colin Y]

Christopher,

"Deigned" is a little strong!

However I hear what you say.

I do have a particularly busy life and, save during the Uni vacations, Gen work goes by the board, by and large, so I was catching up on info sent and trying to do the right thing. I'll have to be more careful even if I am unable to be more prompt!

Otto's latest reply generously accepts my response. I cant seem to get in to it to reply to him but he does say that he has taken no offence so Ill rest there.

On the substantive matter the 1821 census's absence seems odd.

I have a book: Linen Family & Community in Tullylish, County Down written by Marilyn Cohen, an august US researcher and author on Ulster history in which she several times refers to data as coming from the 1821 Census Enumerators Schedules. How can this be? (I have tried to find her contact info without success and she seems not to be at the US University which she wrote the book from.) Unless I accept her reference to data from '1821 Census Enumerators Schedules' which she says came from the writings of a Brenda Collins as being in some way 'unrelaible' which, of course I would not, there must be a copy somehwere else?

Would such schedules provide enough information to allow data to be deduced? Where might they be?

I have herad suggestion that the Brits kept a copy, would it be in Kew?

I have tried to find her contact info without success and she seems not to be at the US University which she wrote the book from.

You clear expertise in Irish Family Research matters is appreciated. I have some legs in Lutrgan and in Utah but neither has been able to resolve this one to date.

Thanks for your help.

Colin

[Christopher]

Colin,

Could you please put my mind at ease. I realise you have a busy working life and are able to devote some of your spare time to genealogical research. However I am extremely worried about this dangerous habit you have of walking bare foot on paths of hot bricks. It is somewhat more dangerous than knocking down genealogical brick walls. You may not have realised it but I believe Kew is in England. I quote I have herad suggestion that the Brits kept a copy, would it be in Kew? I feel that the term Brits includes the total population of the geographical unit of the British Isles. That means the English, Irish, Scots and Welsh. Maybe we could form a good double act - you walking on those hot bricks and myself juggling hot political potatoes.

1821 Census I hope these sites explain the situation of the 1821 Census. Note some of the Census records 1821 - 51 are at the National Archives of Ireland [NAI], formerly Public Record Office. There are also microfilm copies of the Ulster material in the Public Record Office of Northern
http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/browse/records/census/1821illustration.
www.ancestryireland.co.uk/index.php?filename=timeline_help
http://www.sag.org.au/ossources/census.htm
www.rootsweb.com/~fianna/county/down/dow-1.html
www.rootsweb.com/~irlmea2/Census Meath       
www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat2/censusndx.htm Waterford

All the Best, Christopher