Author Topic: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789  (Read 1258 times)

Offline TadlowNewell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« on: Saturday 05 March 22 20:15 GMT (UK) »
Sarah Mortimore married Joseph Bounsall, a Tailor, in Plymouth, Charles the Martyr church on 15 Sep 1789. An image of the marriage record can be found here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC9B-G8K

I know quite a lot about Joseph Bounsall, but can find nothing at all about Sarah, except that the couple produced at least three children together (Henry 1790; Sarah 1792; Catherine 1798). Hence Sarah must have been born around 1755 - 1775. I hope some clever Rootschatter can unearth more.

Joseph Bounsall (1737-1808) was first married to Arminell Angell and they had 8 children together 1762-1779 before Arminell died in 1788. Note Joseph would have been 52 at the time of his marriage to Sarah Mortimore.

I am especially interested in finding out who Sarah was because her daughter Catherine married Richard Ackland in 1818 and they have produced many descendants, many of whom have created 'Public' trees on Ancestry and almost all have, incorrectly I believe, recorded Catherine as being the illegitimate daughter of Joseph Bounsall (1779-1849) a cordwainer and the son of the Joseph Bounsall mentioned above, with one Sarah Carpenter. I would love to be able to prove them wrong. Hopefully someone can help me.

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,512
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 March 22 22:10 GMT (UK) »
There is a Sally Mortimer baptised 14th March 1756 at Charles the Martyr, (the same church as the marriage to Joseph Bounsall in 1789), to a Peter and Sarah Mortimer.
'Sally' can be a variation of 'Sarah'
Unfortunately, I then found a burial of a 'Sarah Mortimer', 'daughter' of Peter on 30th March 1760, so that seems to scupper that one.

I see on the actual image in the baptism register for Catherine in 1798, in whom there seems to be some dispute as to her parents, it says quite plainly she is the child of Joseph and Sarah Bounsall. I would have thought if there was any doubt about her parentage, for example if she was illegitimate, there would have been something written in the register. Most likely just the mother's name recorded, and some comment made.

Whilst searching, I found one of the witnesses on the marriage of Joseph and Sarah in 1789, was a James Bounsall.
James seems to marry in 1798 at Stoke Damerel - just a mile or so out of Plymouth itself, and Joseph signs as a witness.
I think these are the same signatures on the two marriage entries, despite James writing 'James' in one, and 'Jas' in the other - a common abbreviation for James.
They are both 'Taylors', so I suspect they are brothers. You may well have already found this of course.

This doesn't help with Sarah Mortimore/Mortimer.
She may not have been a Plymouth girl of course, and come from some other part of the county to the big city to work, or from Cornwall, just over the river in Plymouth, or even further afield.
There is a Sarah Mortimer baptised in 1778 in the Isles of Scilly, just off the tip of Cornwall, father Thomas mother Sarah, but this would make her too young to be married in 1789. Unfortunately again, there is a burial of of a Sarah Mortimer in 1779, and another baptism of a Sarah to Thomas  and Sarah in 1788, so again this is not her.

Normally, I would be looking for wills for any one related to the families. They can really help sort out problems if they can be found, but as you may know, a good proportion of Devon wills were destroyed during WWII when Exeter Cathedral was bombed. You may be lucky and find some that were transcribed before the bombing, or extracts of them, or any made at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (available on Ancestry or National Archives Discovery Site for free at the moment if you don't have a sub to Ancestry).
Do you know when the father of Joseph's first wife died? Perhaps he left bequests to his grandchildren, and included his step grandchildren. Or even other members of her family. Spinster aunts and bachelor uncles were very good at leaving bequests to nephews and nieces.
What about Joseph Bounsall himself, or his parents, or his siblings? Are they any wills for them? As well as bequests in the wills themselves, sometimes witnesses to the will or Inventory appraisers can also give clues.

Good luck!
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Ashtone

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,452
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 March 22 22:23 GMT (UK) »
Not exactly a help with Sarah Mortimore, but is the OP aware that Joseph & Arminell Bounsall were the witnesses to the April 1763 marriage of Thomas Goodwin to Elisabeth Hurd at St Martins in the Field?
I've no idea what their connection was to Joseph and Arminell, but details like this are always worth noting.

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,512
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 05 March 22 22:55 GMT (UK) »
The Devon Wills Project, an index of wills that once were, plus other snippets, is on findmypast.

National Archives Discovery wills
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/wills-1384-1858/


You're right Hillhurst
That's a very interesting find.
It's hundreds of miles from Plymouth to London - especially on the roads in 1763!
Not a journey you would be undertaking lightly.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs


Offline Ashtone

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,452
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 05 March 22 23:12 GMT (UK) »
You're right Hillhurst
That's a very interesting find.
It's hundreds of miles from Plymouth to London - especially on the roads in 1763!

Didn't Joseph and Arminell reside in London shortly after their own marriage? Might explain them being witnesses at that 1763 marriage.

Offline TadlowNewell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 05 March 22 23:14 GMT (UK) »
Hillhurst is correct. I suspect Joseph served hi apprenticeship in London though I have no primary evidence of that. They also married and had first child there if memory serves - I'm on phone not near laptop.

Offline arishmell

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 06 March 22 07:06 GMT (UK) »
Quote
It's hundreds of miles from Plymouth to London - especially on the roads in 1763!
Not a journey you would be undertaking lightly.

It would be far more likely that they would travel by sea, especially from a place like Plymouth with almost as many boats/ships as people!

Have you considered that Sarah may also have been widowed?  You suggest she may have been born as early as 1755, and it would be unusual for a woman of 34 to be making a first marriage.  So you really could be looking for a needle in a haystack, a Sarah who married a Mortimore and was subsequently widowed, almost anywhere in the country.  Devon and London would seem to be the first places to look.

Researching:
Waycott, Fewings, Piper, Burgoyne, Johns, Phillips, Paddon, Streat;
Morrish, Rowdon, Pike, Lowder, Flood, Parsons and others.
All in glorious Devon!

Offline TadlowNewell

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #7 on: Monday 07 March 22 13:24 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all for looking at this. I didn't expect a breakthrough, but it was worth a try. Two other things.

First, I have now checked  my database about Joseph Bounsall. He was baptised 5 Nov 1737 in Launceston; married Arminell Angell 27 Jun 1761 in St Alphege in Greenwich, London. Their first son, James (who was I'm sure witness at later marriage to Sara Mortimore) was born 1762 in Holborn, London; Their second son, John was baptised at St Martin in the Fields 11 Mar 1764. This ties in with them being witnesses at marriage there in 1763 mentioned below. Later children were born in Devon, so it seems the family moved back there from London around 1765/66.

Second I have raised a query with the folk who run the impressively extensive Mortimer/Mortimore family history website. Their section on Plymouth is at https://mortimerhistory.com/mortimer-family-tree/devon/south-devon/plymouth/. If I hear back from them with anything interesting I shall post it here.

Thanks again for your help.

Offline Sikes

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Can anyone find anything about Sarah Mortimore, marrying Plymouth, 1789
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 September 22 20:08 BST (UK) »
I cant help with your Sarah Mortimore / Mortimer but I thought I'd make you aware of another Mortimer family in the area at around the same the time. I've hit a total brickwall with them.

James Mortimer was baptised at St Andrews, Plymouth in 1800. His father Phillip married Ann Fitt in 1796 in Norfolk as he was in the Pembrokeshire Militia. The Militia travelled around the south coast but was based for a while in Plymouth.