Kilkenneth

[tattysmum]

I didn’t know that was the reason for the 1939 census…

Just looking on the 1921 census again, the right Ellen is on it as my grandfather is on it to, and it states Ellen is from Kilkenny..Ireland

[aghadowey]

I didn’t know that was the reason for the 1939 census…

The 1939 Register was NOT a census. You can google it and find lots of information about why it was created and what its uses were.

Another thing to remember is that as well as early births not always registered many people pre-WWI did not actually know when their birthdays were.

[Kiltaglassan]

OP,

Read this-
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

[heywood]

Just a bit more information re the Donnelly/Heffernan children. Just to note in case …

There is a death here for Ellen, aged 6 months in 1874

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020641/7241790.pdf

This seems wrong. There were twins, Bridget and Statia born and baptised March 1874.

[aghadowey]

I did notice the 1874 death for a daughter Ellen in 1874 which didn't seem to fit other details I found. There was another Bridget born 1876 but I couldn't see a death for the 1874 one- perhaps that is Ellen d.1876?

This is what I had typed up yesterday but was holding off since it wasn't clear this is the correct family-
A William Donnelly, age 26 died 20 Dec.1883 at Ballyline, informant- mother Alice Donnelly-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06332/4816064.pdf
This would make him born c1857 and makes it likely there were other children before Ellen’s birth in 1864.
Ellen Donnelly born 13 Feb.1864 at Brittas (Callan registration district, Co. Kilkenny)- parents James Donnelly & Ally Heffernan. Same parents as on Jan.1864 baptism.
Bridget born 1866- died before 1874-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03526/2297423.pdf
James born 1868-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03437/2261929.pdf
Michael born 1871- died before 1873-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03306/2211748.pdf
Michael Donnelly died 1873 Ballyline, informant- James Donnelly
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020695/7261000.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03206/2175743.pdf (parents- James Donnelly & Alle? or Alce? Heffernan)
Twin daughters Statia & Bridget born 1874 Ballyline-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03145/2153550.pdf
Bridget born 1876-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03053/2119230.pdf

An Ellen Donnelly, child of labourer, died 19 Oct.1874 Ballyline (also Callan R.D.), aged 6 months, informant Alicia Donnelly
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020641/7241790.pdf

[heywood]

I think the last one (Ellen) is a mistake and should be one of the twins.

In baptisms for the parish https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0969

There are these baptisms prior to Ellen in 1864 to the same parents


1856 January 16th - Ellen
1857 May 31st  - William
1859 September 4th - John
1862 January 12th - Mary


As I wrote before, there is an immigration record which fits with the parents and some of the children. The names seem right but birth/death dates are questionable.

[tattysmum]

Thank you both for all this information….you both seem more knowledgeable then I do on genealogy

The information I have for Ellen is that she was born in Kilkenny 1864, that’s on the 1921 census..

I do have, who I think is her on the 1939 census stating d.o.b as 2nd Aug 1864, but not where she originally  came from…from 1891-1921 she lives in Essex, but if it’s her, she is in Cambridgeshire with her youngest son by 1939…. I don’t know if you know these parts of England, but Essex to Wisbech 40-50 miles….

Walter William was my grandfathers younger brother, and I met him when I was a child back in the 1960s and knew he lived in Wisbech…

So if this the correct Ellen we have a problem with the birth date…

Any ideas?

[heywood]

Birthdates can vary - not the same importance as now.
It is really difficult as we can’t find a marriage nor a birth for the oldest son.
Do you have a birth date for him?

[tattysmum]

All I know from the 1891 census is that he was born James William, in 1887 in Ireland…
1901 census, he’s still at home but known as James, but still 1887 in  Ireland..

The 1911 census I have for him, (but don’t know if correct)’ he’s in downham, still names James, birth date still 1887 but says he was born at sea…..The reason I chose this census was because somebody told me he married a Frances Cooper in downham later on, but don’t know if correct…