Orange Family Surname

[Pennines]

An Alice M Orange sadly died in Q/E March 1951 in Northumberland South Reg Dist aged only 43. If that is the correct Alice - the son born in late 1941 would only be 9 years old.

What a very sad story if this is the correct Alice.

There is something odd about her entry on the 1939 Register. It refers you to page 15 - which then simply refers you back to page 2! I don't understand that.

[manukarik]

Unfortunately there is no birth in 1941 - BUT there is one in Q/E March 1942 for someone with the correct surname and the same mother's maiden name. This is going off the original posters message - but I can't name them as they may still be alive.

Again this is in Hemsworth Reg Dist. Yorkshire - not Newcastle.

The birth here could still be in 1941, but not registered till the beginning of 1942.

[Pennines]

Yes Manukarik it could - but we think that is the wrong family now.

We are onto the one found by Tickettyboo - as the original poster mentioned her father's birth cert was obtained from Norfolk - and the family originated from the Newcastle area.

DownUnder33
The 'adopted' daughter found in 1911, Alice Maud Orange b 1907 - hasn't had her surname changed, so it may NOT have been an official adoption. Her birth certificate could be obtained from the General Register Office and you will find her mother's name, as Alice herself seems to have been illegitimate. (If you think this is your correct grandmother.)

If you order from the General Register Office you can order a PDF copy for £7 (as opposed to £11 for a paper copy plus postage if you ARE 'down under'. (I notice you said you had obtained your father's certificate from Norfolk Archives).

https://www.gov.uk/general-register-office

If you haven't ordered from the General Register Office before you will need to register. The birth you are ordering is;

Alice Orange

1907

Q/E Dec

Gateshead Registration District

Volume 10a

Page 1036

(Only if you think this is the correct Alice though.)

I do wonder why a single lady would adopt a child and wonder if she was connected to the family in some way, which may be revealed by researching Alice's family backwards. The name 'Maud' seems to have been added as a middle name, as she wasn't registered with it.

[DownUnder33]

Thankyou all for the replies. I did already look at the adopted Alice and was wondering if it could be her, might go into it further now.

In regards to how I know Alice is from Newcastle, I obtained my fathers birth certificate from the Norfolk Registrar and her residence in Newcastle was listed. Unfortunately the road no longer seems to exist (Warden Street, off Westmorland Road). I was hoping for any census records that might have this listed, but no luck finding any, at least online anyway. And the Newcastle Archives want 30 pound per hour to search

Her occupation was listed as a cook, and the birthplace I think is the residence of the Marsham family in Norfolk (My fathers last name). So Im guessing she was employed there as a live in cook, considering there is such a distance between her home county and there

[KGarrad]

Warden Street is mentioned in an old thread!
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=328691.0

Look at reply #2.

Looks as though the streets mentioned were built over by Newcastle College and Cruddas Park.

[Tickettyboo]

Warden St, as you say is long gone, but it ran between Westmoreland Road and Bell Terrace.
This shows where it was side by side with a modern day map

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.005470723905592&lat=54.96638&lon=-1.63665&layers=168&right=osm

If you have access to Ancestry they have Newcastle Electoral registers, nearest available for the time frame is 1939 and then 1945 (no registers during the war years)
Just leave the name fields blank and put Warden St into the keyword box, and 1939 in the year.

Boo

[Tickettyboo]

Given an address in Newcastle, I had a firkle in the records and did find a tentative link for an Alice Orange to Warden St - but not till 1945.
So I have had a go at building what I believe is a timeline for 'this' Alice Orange (nee Lynam)

1906 GRO Births
Q3 1906 Newcastle upon Tyne, Alice Lynham MMN Hay

1911 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMW-K5H

1921 electoral register
Stephen & Margaret Lynham (Alice's parents) are listed at Raiway St., Newcastle

1921 census
A free advanced search of the 1921 census for surname Lynam, living in Newcastle upon Tyne, address Railway St brings up likely results that match with the 1911 census, including an Alice, born 1906. Newcastle

1922 GRO Marriages
Q3 1922  Newcastle upon Tyne, Alice LYNAM and John H Orange

1922-1939
I can see 6 births with the surname/mmn combination of Orange/Lynam in the GRO index. One of which, Margaret, was born and died too soon, born Q2 1925, Newcastle , died same year /quarter and district.

1939 Newcastle Evening Chronicle 05 Jul 1939, page 3 col 7
I, JOHN HENRY ORANGE, OF 12 DUKE STREET, Newcastle on Tyne, hereby declare that I will not be responsible for any debt or debts incurred by my wife, Alice Orange, on or after, this date 5th July 1939
(Signed)  J. H. ORANGE

1939 Register, 29 September,  this couple are  easily found in 1939 in Newcastle (but not at the address in the newspaper notice)
NB the register was compiled after that newspaper notice, but maybe she hadn't actually left him yet.

1942 25 Feb Newcastle Journal, page 4, col 7
Newcastle A.T.S. Woman's Bigamy
Alice Orange (35) , a lance=corporal in the A.T.S. and mother of five children, was at York Assizes yesterday bound over for 12 months for bigamy.
Mr A. Snowden, prosecuting, said Orange married her legal husband at Newcastle in 1922. The union was not a happy one owing to quarrelling as a result of the wife fallling into debt.
In 1939, Orange left her husband and went to Bradford, where she met Albert Edward Eaves, who at that time was about 23. They went through a form of marriage in 1939 at St Paul's Church, Middlesborough, Orange representing herself to be Joyce Robinson, a spinster.
Inspector J. Grimes, Middlesbrough, said Orange was married when she was only 16.
The Commandant of  Orange's unit gave her a good character.
Mr Justice Hilbery said her action was difficult to understand. She had a good Army character and had done Eaves no apparent harm. He would not put the stigma of gaol upon her on this occasion.

1945 October Electoral Register
28 Warden Street, Newcastle
Alice Orange and Smith Lynam both registered to vote at this address

cross check for Smith Lynam in GRO Births
1898 Q4 Chester le Street, Smith Shipley Lynam, MMN HAY

Boo

[DownUnder33]

I dont know what else to say Boo, but wow! That's some good research, thankyou. That road side by side map is great tool too.

Going backwards from that 1945 census, and seeing Alice Orange and Smith Lynam both at the same abode, you would have to think that this Alice was indeed born Lynam. Most likely moved back there once the marriage split with John. 28 was the street number on the birth certificate too.

I do have Ancestry membership and have found a few family trees there where they show her an Smith being brother/sister. She seemed to have 5 or 6 other kids listed in these trees, which you noted in your birth record search. Doing some digging know to find out all their names and see if there is any still living.

No tree mentions Albert Eaves yet, so will have a look into him and see if there were any further offspring.

Have ordered a DNA test too, still awaiting arrival at the centre in Ireland, hearing there is some long delays now though

[brigidmac]

Wow it is amazing research and an amazing story .

My apologies for sending you down wrong path at first

boos timeline makes it all hang together .

Good luck with the LYNAM  +ORANGE descendants and your DNA results.

Ps from 1911 census Alice's parents had been married 24 years and had 11 children
10 of them are on the census with them