Hoping to get a few questions answered

[tattysmum]

Hello, I’ve been trying to trace a family member…My G Grandparents..Abel Law 1859 from Clavering Essex England and Ellen Donelly  1864 from Kilkenny Ireland…Abel was missing off the 1871-1891 census and I think he went to Ireland..He turned up in the 1891 census back in Clavering, with Ellen and a son James William 1886 Ireland..I haven’t found any marriage certificate, birth certificates for Ellen or James…but what I have found is another person called William Thompson 1862 Clavering, Essex, married a Ellen Donnelly and had a son called James William 1887…

Abel 1859 Clavering + Ellen Donelly 1864 Kilkenny + James William 1886 Kildere  Ireland..No marriage yet
William 1862 Clavering + Ellen Donnelly 1864 Kilkenny + James William 1887 Kildere, Ireland…Marriage 17 March 1885 …Newbridge..Ireland

I have traced William through his service records from 1879-1893, he was in the Royal Artillery, first in Kilkenny then in Newbridge from regular service to reserve..
Regular in Ireland…Reserve says Home from 1887-1893, but at the moment I can’t find any record of them back in Clavering,  but find Abel, Ellen and James William back in Clavering in 1891..

Questions I want to ask are…Was there  fighting in Ireland  1875=1887? Would men change their ID to join up back in those times? It’s strange that Abel’s and William’s  ID are very similar…Any ideas would be a great help please…

[CraigM63]

Ireland was then part of the UK, and British Army regiments would have rotated through home postings in Ireland in the same way that they would have in any other part of the UK. And joining up under an assumed name is quite common, for various reasons, as indeed was joining up underage. Recruits were not asked for proof of identity or age, if they gave a name and an age it was accepted as fact.

I'd certainly suggest that all the circumstantial evidence you have found builds a strong case for Abel Law/William Thompson being the same person.

[tattysmum]

Thank you for that information, it’s very helpful…

[Annette7]

Whilst I can't answer your specific questions, son James William ended up in Downham, Norfolk - married twice - 1911 and 1929 (latter as plain James) - and 1921 index shows born Ireland and 1939 shows birthdate as 23/11/1886 which is same as James William Thompson birth.  He died 1948.  His first wife died 1928.

Annette

[tattysmum]

Dear Annette, thank you for the information on James…I do have all that information…I’m a descendant of the Law family and have gone back to 1680…The main person I’m trying to trace is Ellen Donelly (this  is how it’s spelt on my grandfather Abel’s birth certificate, his father was also called Abel) I can trace Ellen from 1891 in Clavering, Essex to her death in 1940 in Wisbech Cambridgeshire..I found her birth place on the 1921 census which was Kilkenny Ireland and her date of birth is 2nd August 1864 on the 1939 record…Somebody on roots found the marriage of a Ellen Donnelly to a William Thompson in 1885, in Kilkenny… William Thompson and my G grandfather Abel Law have so much in comparison, down to place of birth of Clavering Essex,  both of their fathers fathers were called James,  both marrying Ellen Donelly/Donnelly, both Ellen’s born 1864 in Kilkenny, both having a son born 1866/1867 in Ireland, both sons named James William..That’s is why I was wondering if William and Abel are the same person….

[CraigM63]

The marriage record of William Thompson and Ellen Donnelly is a little hard to read, but all three grooms on the page appear to have been living in barracks on Patrick Street, Kilkenny at the time that they were married, which suggests they were all soldiers of one sort or another. Having a stab at reading their recorded rank or professions gets me to Bombardier (Edward Carter), Gunner (Charles Ryder) and Driver (William Thompson).

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10861/5965793.pdf

James William's birth on 23 November 1886 was registered in Newbridge, Nass, County Kildare while father William's occupation was Driver in the RA (Royal Artillery), so consistent with what is recorded in the marriage registration and James William's stated place of birth in later records.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02583/1954752.pdf

Apologies if I am reposting information and links to records that you already have.

[tattysmum]

Dear Craig, don’t worry about what you are sending, everything is gratefully received…I’ve been trying to find anything about Ellen Donelly for years, it’s was only through the 1921 census and the 1939 record that I’ve been able to move a little further….I just wish it was easier to work out who’s who