Poor Family of Newbury or Surrounding Area

[MattD30]

Is anyone here able to check for a christening for a Peoebe Poor in Newbury, Berkshire [or nearby] probably between 1750 and 1762.

A number of trees online have her born to Timothy Poor and Deborah Skinner but the birth dates range from 1757 to 1771 with 1758 being the most common. However no sources or christening date are given, just years. I can find no trace of Peobe or any other Poor family members on Familysearch or in Ancestry's records [except on trees]. Pheobe's husband Joseph Head was born in abt 1757 so a christening between 1750 and 1760 would seem more feesable than 1771.

There is a theory [in some trees and posted in reply to a previous message I posted] that Phoebe Poor might have been born Pheobe Nalder and may have had a step-father named Thomas Poor thus taking his name. This is explained as follows from records in the Prs:

Marriage 1762
Thomas Poor married Christian Lawrence

They had one daughter named Mary christened on 19 Sep 1762 [the original record is smuged so Christian's name has been transcribed as Christopher but should clearly be Christian].

Christian herself seems to have died in 1769 as there is a burial for a Chriatian Poor on 30th May 1769

A few months later it looks like Thomas Poor remarried:

3rd September 1769
Thomas Poor [widower]
Sarah Nalder [spinster]
Both of this parish
Both marked with an x

This was followed by the christening of a son named John in November 1771
then this baptism:

So Thomas had a child when he married Sarah, but the question there is was Sarah Nalder an unmarried mother at the time? It would explain the quick marriage here. Could my Phoebe Poor actually have been born Phoebe Nalder to Sarah Nalder [father unknown] and then been given the name “Poor” when her mother married Thomas? In other words could she have been “adopted” so to speak into that family?

Sadly at the moment I can't see a christening for a Pheobe Poor or Phoebe Nalder in Newbury itself.

What do others think of this idea? Does it make sense and if so where should I check next and what name shouold I look for?

I hope this makes sense and thank you all in advance for any ideas or suggestions.

Matt

[rosie99]

The marriage to Joseph Head was in June 1792.  Have you eliminated the baptism in 1775 at St Mary Bourne, Hampshire with parents William and Mary -that Pheby was born June 1775

St Mary Bourne is only about 12 miles from Newbury

[MattD30]

The marriage to Joseph Head was in June 1792.  Have you eliminated the baptism in 1775 at St Mary Bourne, Hampshire with parents William and Mary -that Pheby was born June 1775

St Mary Bourne is only about 12 miles from Newbury

Hi there

I don't think I've come across that one. It's definitely one for me to look into.

Many thanks

Matt

[jonw65]

Just to mention that Timothy and Deborah Poor(e) had a number of children baptized at Newbury Lower Meeting House (Independent)
Images on ancestry
Last one we can see is 9 Sep 1770, Joseph, son of Timothy + Deborah Poore of Speenhamland.

That's the last page of the register, with the last baptism recorded in it being exactly one year later.
The next register starts in 1784, so one is lost/missing

There is Phoebe Head (or Heade on ancestry) in St Giles Reading in 1841, age 70, Independent, Born in county.
Elizabeth Head, 15, Female Servant, is with her.

Burial at St. Giles, 14 Dec 1845, Phoebe Head, age 72. Abode Horn Street.
Can't see any other likely burial record indexed.

Probate for Timothy Poore, or two Timothy Poores, in Berkshire in 1797 and 1799, but findmypast say they are administrations.

[jonw65]

There is a marriage in St Mary Bourne, 8 Nov 1798.
John Vince + Phoebe Poore

Baptisms following there, starting with a son William, 17 Feb 1799.

[MattD30]

Just to mention that Timothy and Deborah Poor(e) had a number of children baptized at Newbury Lower Meeting House (Independent)
Images on ancestry
Last one we can see is 9 Sep 1770, Joseph, son of Timothy + Deborah Poore of Speenhamland.

That's the last page of the register, with the last baptism recorded in it being exactly one year later.
The next register starts in 1784, so one is lost/missing

There is Phoebe Head (or Heade on ancestry) in St Giles Reading in 1841, age 70, Independent, Born in county.
Elizabeth Head, 15, Female Servant, is with her.

Burial at St. Giles, 14 Dec 1845, Phoebe Head, age 72. Abode Horn Street.
Can't see any other likely burial record indexed.

Probate for Timothy Poore, or two Timothy Poores, in Berkshire in 1797 and 1799, but findmypast say they are administrations.

Thanks for those. I was aware of Timothy Deborah Poor as they are shown as Pheobe's parents on several Ancestry trees. Sadly those don't give any details about her date.

It does give me something to go on though.

Matt

[stevemiller]

Hello Matt,
I’ve just spotted this topic [note to self – always check look-up board as well as the main Berks one!]]

Phoebe Poor and Joseph Head were my 4xgreat grandparents. And he was, indeed, much older than her when they married in 1792 – in fact, about twice her age.

The Phoebe Head that jonw65 identified in Reading in 1841 census is indeed the correct one. The Elizabeth Head with her is probably her granddaughter (parents Joseph Head & Jane Virtue). They are living with Edward and Harriett Emans (transcribed by Ancestry as Emansa) on the previous census page. I think “Harriett” is an error and should be Kezia (as she is in 1851). Edward Emmans and Kesiah Head married at Thatcham on 26 Dec 1825. Edward was landlord of The Little Crown, Horn Street.

I have Phoebe’s death certificate for 7 Dec 1845 at Horn Street. She is shown as the widow of Joseph Head, labourer; and the informant was Edward Emans present at the death.

As with the burial record, her age was given as 72, so a birth around 1773.

In Toomer’s 1815 census of Newbury Phoebe is at  Morris’s Yard, west side of Market Place, and shown as a widow with five children. She is aged 43, so a birth around 1772. Also in the same Yard three doors along is John (aged 44) and Susanna Poor, plus children Ann and Sarah. Was he Phoebe’s brother?

Looking for a Newbury baptism around 1772/3 the following appears:

18 Apr 1774 Pheeby, daughter of Sarah Poor, widow

The father’s burial is:
2 March 1774 Thomas Poor

I agree with what you say about Thomas Poor and Christian Lawrence. Although the banns and marriage register show them both of Newbury, the latter notes he is a sojourner. I’ve not got further back than this.

There are two possibilities for Phoebe’s mother Sarah Nalder – which is where I stick.
1 Apr 1748 d/o Robert Nalder & Mary, or
23 May 1753 aged 4 d/o Charles Nalder & Mary (with Elizabeth baptised on the same day)

The Newbury register entries are from Berks FHS transcription for St Nicolas – an essential purchase for folk with deep Newbury connections.

I hope this helps – it’s always useful to have different people come to the same conclusion independently.

[MattD30]

Hello Matt,
I’ve just spotted this topic [note to self – always check look-up board as well as the main Berks one!]]

Phoebe Poor and Joseph Head were my 4xgreat grandparents. And he was, indeed, much older than her when they married in 1792 – in fact, about twice her age.

The Phoebe Head that jonw65 identified in Reading in 1841 census is indeed the correct one. The Elizabeth Head with her is probably her granddaughter (parents Joseph Head & Jane Virtue). They are living with Edward and Harriett Emans (transcribed by Ancestry as Emansa) on the previous census page. I think “Harriett” is an error and should be Kezia (as she is in 1851). Edward Emmans and Kesiah Head married at Thatcham on 26 Dec 1825. Edward was landlord of The Little Crown, Horn Street.

I have Phoebe’s death certificate for 7 Dec 1845 at Horn Street. She is shown as the widow of Joseph Head, labourer; and the informant was Edward Emans present at the death.

As with the burial record, her age was given as 72, so a birth around 1773.

In Toomer’s 1815 census of Newbury Phoebe is at  Morris’s Yard, west side of Market Place, and shown as a widow with five children. She is aged 43, so a birth around 1772. Also in the same Yard three doors along is John (aged 44) and Susanna Poor, plus children Ann and Sarah. Was he Phoebe’s brother?

Looking for a Newbury baptism around 1772/3 the following appears:

18 Apr 1774 Pheeby, daughter of Sarah Poor, widow

The father’s burial is:
2 March 1774 Thomas Poor

I agree with what you say about Thomas Poor and Christian Lawrence. Although the banns and marriage register show them both of Newbury, the latter notes he is a sojourner. I’ve not got further back than this.

There are two possibilities for Phoebe’s mother Sarah Nalder – which is where I stick.
1 Apr 1748 d/o Robert Nalder & Mary, or
23 May 1753 aged 4 d/o Charles Nalder & Mary (with Elizabeth baptised on the same day)

The Newbury register entries are from Berks FHS transcription for St Nicolas – an essential purchase for folk with deep Newbury connections.

I hope this helps – it’s always useful to have different people come to the same conclusion independently.

Hi

Thanks for your message which has been very useful. I will now go and print out all the comments on here about the Poors in the hope of compiling a basic tree.

It would be good to share more info on them off of Rootschat so I will send you a pm with my email details.

Which of Joseph and Phoebe's children do you descend from?

Hope to talk to you soon

Matt