Alice DANIELS (1869-1953)

[Ashtone]

Finding her in 1911 would help.

Think this has been suggested before, but there are several London-born females in the 1911 census recorded under initials "A D". Also, there are several females with birthplace recorded as "unknown".
All of these women have birth years in the range of 1868-1872.

Trouble is, if these women are patients in institutions/hospitals, you won't have much to go on to confirm if one of them is your Alice Daniels. It is what it is.

ADDED: One of the women (born 1869) is in Epsom. Birth place is "London NK".
Looks like its the LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL LONG GROVE ASYLUM. Occupation of this patient is "charwoman" (same as your Alice's occupation in 1901).

Another possibility is a woman from Islington (born 1872) in a Dartford institution. Think she has been suggested before.

[Greaves]

Yes, I am aware of the custom of using initials to identify persons in mental institutions. As you say, it makes life very difficult. I have tried in the past to identify such individuals. As far as I know there is no central list and the only way is to contact the institution itself or the body that keeps its records and ask whether a named individual was admitted to that institution. It has worked for me in the past, but it is very hit and miss.

[Greaves]

I'm not sure if this will help, but according to one of the reports the magistrate dealing with her attempted suicide entrusted her and her child to the care of a Mr Holmes, a missionary with connection to a charitable house.

I have never been able to identify where this charitable home was located. Does anyone know anything about Mr Holmes? Or indeed the charitable home he was connected to?

Thomas Holmes evidently was the police court missionary for the North London Court, who was later connected to the Howard Association, the prison reform organisation..

[jaywit]

Found this online.

https://www.ajhw.co.uk/books/book443.html

Don't know if there is anything in there that would help.

[Ashtone]

Yes, I am aware of the custom of using initials to identify persons in mental institutions. As you say, it makes life very difficult.

As regards the 1909 windows-breaking incident in Homerton, Alice was charged with insulting behaviour, as well as property damage. So depending on the outcome of those charges, she may have been incarcerated somewhere. You would need to further check newspaper reports and criminal records c1909. Perhaps she's a prison inmate in 1911.

Have you researched the man she married in 1918? Where was he in the 1911 census?

Where was Alice residing when she married him in 1918? Does the marriage record indicate a street address for her? Have you followed-up the address and any additional connection(s) it may have to Alice?

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Where was Alice residing when she married him in 1918? Does the marriage record indicate a street address for her? Have you followed-up the address and any additional connection(s) it may have to Alice?

He's still married to wife no 1 in 1911

They give the same address at marriage - 52 Rochester Road

[Greaves]

With regard to the 1909 window breaking episode, Alice was ordered to pay 35s with the alternative of 14 days. So she would not have been incarcerated in 1911 as a result of this episode.

It should be noted that for the purpose of her court appearance her address was given as Rosina Street. The whole event was triggered by her being ejected from that address by the unnamed man she was cohabiting with. It is unclear whether or not she returned to that arrangement and/or address.

As far as I can see she is not there in 1911.

[genealogyem]

Hello Greaves,

I am a descendant of Alice's brother George Thomas (b. 1874). I have been researching his family for sometime now and found your information about Alice to be extremely interesting. When I started to dig into the story a little further, I found a few newspaper transcriptions on BNA that may be of interest.

September 3 1898 - published in the Graphic, pg 5
"...RING PERFORMERS: the Genuine NEGRO KENTUCKY TROUPE of Singers and Dancers: Alice Daniels..."

I cant be certain which Alice this article is about, although I do believe that it is unlikely there was more than one performer who had this name (based off of census data and the number of newspaper search results). If this is her, it may explain the "foreign looking man" that she was living with in 1899. Based on adverts in the paper, she only performed with the troupe between August and September of that year.

In regard to the 1899 turpentine poising, I did find an article that claims this was not her first suicide attempt.

Oct 22 1899 - published in Lloyds Weekly News, pg 4 (and several other papers)
"... On the prisoner being now placed in the dock the police officer handed the magistrate a letter, and said that a month ago the prisoner was charged with attempting suicide by throwing herself over London Bridge".

The same article also goes on to offer a potential reason for why there is no mention of the child in future records.

"The gentleman who was caring for the child asked for bail in order that the prisoner might look after their child. This was refused, and the man then asked to be relieved of the child as he could not look after her properly, and the prisoner's female relatives absolutely refused to bare anything to do with the little girl. [...] the only course of action was for the child to be taken to the workhouse."
(To clarify, the article does say that this was not his child but that he was very fond of her and that there was an emotional display when the two were separated)

There are no details about the family's reason for not wanting custody, however its not hard to come up with a list of potential reasons.

A little fun fact to close with:
Alice's family must have had a musical gene of some sort, as I found a newspaper article about her brother George singing aboard his battalions troop ship during WW1.

-EM

[Greaves]

Would that be the George Thomas who married Bessie sword and emigrated to Canada?

If so then we are related, as his brother John Daniels (1886-1952) was my grandfather.

Perhaps we should use personal e-mails?