Author Topic: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area  (Read 2409 times)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 23 April 22 02:37 BST (UK) »
The opc database has many transcribed records
https://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/person-search/

2) Are records from Cornwall missing and incomplete for the period 1813-1816, in which Mary is supposed to have been born (from census data)?
The opc database (above link) gives you complete information about record coverage in all parishes.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline jaywit

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 23 April 22 08:32 BST (UK) »
Right this may be pure fantasy but who knows.

We can only find one Nicholas Hill who was a farmer in St Just.
Mary named him as her father. True or massive coincidence?
He died in 1810. What would the chance be of the Mary Hill born 1820 knowing about him?

I think one of the marriages could be Mary, but that marriage failed and Mary wanted out.
At that time Cornwall was still in the grip of Smuggling  and to a certain extent it was regarded as the Wild West.
Mary could have very easily got a boat from Penzance to Plymouth, I guess there were hundreds of small boats sailing along the Southern Cornish coast from Penzance, the most westerly port on the south coast to Plymouth the first city they would reach and it was in Devon.

Once across the Tamar and in Devon she could easily find work legal or illegal and she felt safe enough to revert to her maiden name.

Age, well at that time, no birth certificates and age wasn't as important as it is today.
She may not have known her exact age but she obviously realized she was older than her husband so she could have removed a few years to appear closer to his age.

I think DNA would be a way forward on this. If a match could be found with descendants of any of the St Just Hills then that may be a good as it gets.

I think as much work as possible should be done on all of Nicholas' children and also try and follow up the Mary Hill marriages. This might just eliminate some people but to find some concrete evidence I think will be extremely difficult.

As I said could be pure fantasy but try I won't do any harm.
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jaywit

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 23 April 22 11:18 BST (UK) »
I found the baptisms of the girls easy but the boys not so.

At the moment I can find Nicholas 9/11/1794 BUT he is buried 4/11/1795
so when I have more time I'll have another look.
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AusFamily

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 23 April 22 16:21 BST (UK) »
We can only find one Nicholas Hill who was a farmer in St Just.
Mary named him as her father. True or massive coincidence?
He died in 1810. What would the chance be of the Mary Hill born 1820 knowing about him?
Thanks for your interesting comments, which could well have been the case. Still puzzles me that a 21 year old man would want to marry a 36 year old woman - but maybe there were reasons we don't understand.

The Mary born in Marazion in 1920 has no father's name listed in the old parish register, only a mother, Mary. Does this imply she was born out of wedlock?

Otherwise, as you say the ONLY Mary with father Nicholas recorded in the entire county of Cornwall between 1800-1820 listed, is the 1804 birth in St Just in Penwith entry.

She had three children after marrying a 21 yr old Robert Edwin Ford in 1840 in Devon:
William Henry 1842 - migrated to NZ in 1863, and later to Australia, date of death unknown.
Mary Jane 1844 - 1912
and Henrietta 1846 - who died as a child in 1852.

A stupid question perhaps, but given that nutrition was perhaps not as good in those days, were women still of child bearing age in their late 30s/early 40s at the time?


Offline jaywit

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 23 April 22 16:46 BST (UK) »
Women did give birth until well into their forties, they tended to have longer intervals between children than they did when they were in their twenties but still fertile.

As I have said earlier way back then people were not as hung up on their ages as we are now.

I am still trying to trace Mary's siblings.

Nicholas and Alice married at Madron, normally that would be the wife's parish, I suspect Alice could have moved back there after Nicholas's death but I can't find any trace of her remarrying or dying.

What I can find is Lucy and Elizabeth both marrying at Madron within 2 weeks of each other.
Alice married Edward Harry 17/9/1826 and Elizabeth married William Glasson 26/9/1826.

Lucy didn't marry until she was in her Thirties, she married William Rule at Marazion 16/41836 and she went on to have children up to 1851.

None of the girls married young.
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline osprey

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 23 April 22 16:59 BST (UK) »
Not a problem with women having children in their 30s & early 40s. An ancestor born 1808 had her last child in 1852.

Mary born Marazion with no father on baptism would have been born out of wedlock.

I agree that travel from Penzance to Plymouth would have been easy by sea.

Smuggling however was past its peak
https://www.cornwall-calling.co.uk/smugglers.htm

The Mary Hills who married in St Just were still in Cornwall on the 1841 census so no sign of a marriage breakdown in time for a remarriage in Plymouth.


Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 23 April 22 17:49 BST (UK) »
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline jaywit

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 23 April 22 18:24 BST (UK) »
Penzance is mentioned here with regard to smuggling in the 19th century.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/cornwalls-towns-were-smuggling-havens-6459428
Cross Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Jennings Steeple Claydon Bucks,  Steel Byfield Northants,  Rogers Northants,  Wheeler Oxon,  Roberts Oxon,  Bonham Oxon/ Middleton Cheney Northants,  Maycock Northants,  Abbott Northants , Newman Northants, Buckingham Bucks, Hart Warks, Newth Gloucs.

UK Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AusFamily

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Re: Mary Hill b abt 1813-1816 Penzance area
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 24 April 22 07:27 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone

So as we don't have any other evidence for a Mary Hill with father's name Nicholas apart from the 1804 St Just in Penwith baptism, will have to assume that this is the correct one, even though it places her about ten years older than her census and death entries. The only other possibility is that the records have been lost or destroyed, if she was from a rural area near Penzance.
The 1840 Plymouth marriage entry does not say her father was deceased. Was that a requirement at the time?