Author Topic: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan  (Read 2785 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 28 April 22 11:47 BST (UK) »
If you have time, would you check your US information re Peter please.
The one I am looking at here seems to be linked to family trees with Peter and Mary Malone.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K6W9-BMY

However, the son Patrick b 1836 Scotland does not appear in 1841 and the children from 1841 are not on the census. The trees I have seen, seem to just have details re Patrick.

Then there is a daughter Catherine born abt 1835, County Louth, Ireland who dies in 1906 (record states County ‘South’
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WFK-KL3

This is perhaps the wrong family?

I am just trying to see if there is any useful info there.

1855 census. There was another Brenigan (?) family a bit further up page, number 81. Thomas & wife Mary, both born Ireland + baby Margaret born Kings. (A Lavey family was in the same building, or possibly same dwelling.) Peter Brannigan & family were number 84. Age of son, Patrick was 21, making his estimated estimated birth year 1834. The literacy column has "R" for Thomas & his wfe and for Peter. I assume it means they could read but not write.
1860 census. Patricks' age was 24, making his estimated birth year 1836.  Another Branigan household further down page. John age 33, policeman, born Scotland, Fannie, his wife, born Ireland + 2 children born New York.

Counties Louth and Monaghan are adjacent. (See map posted by Kiltaglassan, reply #12.)
One R.C. parish, Killany, Diocese of Clogher, is in both counties.   
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 28 April 22 12:34 BST (UK) »
Following on from Shanreagh's comment about Brannigan surname variants.
John Grenham lists 17 variants for Brannigan in Irish records on his Irish ancestors website.
https://www.johngrenham.com
Select "Surnames" tab.
Results for Brannigan & variants shows a list of counties. Louth, Monaghan and Tyrone have most records.
Lists are accompanied by maps.

"Varieties and Synonyms of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland for the Guidance of Registration Officers and the Public in Searching the Indexes of Births, Deaths and Marriages" by Robert E. Matheson, Registrar-General (published 1901). Can be read on the Internet Archive https://archive.org

The forename Ellen was interchangeable with Helen. If Ellen couldn't write her name, the decision how to spell it would have been someone else's. 
It might be Helena or Eleanora when written in Latin in church registers.
I had 2 aunts whose births were registered as Ellen. Both were known as Nellie. One decided, late in life that she wanted to be Helen. This was in Lancashire where h aspirate wasn't in common speech. We all had to remember to call her Helen, making a conscious effort to pronounce "H". 
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 28 April 22 14:14 BST (UK) »
Have you found anything about Peter Brannigan?
Or looked for any others around the same place?

I think some trees show him married to Mary Malone but I think I saw a marriage of PB to Mary Smith around the same time in Glasgow.

**added - sorry that marriage was in Paisley


Do we definitely know surname of Peter's wife?
There was a  Peter Branigan marriage 7th May 1835 in Newry, bride Mary, can't read her surname.
Newry R.C. parish, Diocese of Dromore, Counties Down & Armagh.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0455
Newry is near the county boundary with Louth.
A few parishes in Counties Monaghan and Louth have registers going back to 18th century but most don't begin until mid 19th century. Some marriage registers begin 1820s or 1830s, earlier than baptism registers.
I thought there may be a chance of finding Peter's marriage or baptism of his child, to get a location for him.     
Cowban

Online heywood

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 28 April 22 14:17 BST (UK) »
Do you think that the 1855 family i posted earlier is the right one Maiden Stone.
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Offline lyrosesss

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 28 April 22 22:17 BST (UK) »
Hello All!

Let me state that although I was born and raised in Sunderland, Co. Durham, I now live in California.  This means I am in a different time zone.  Last night I was up until 1 am reading all of your messages.   Please be patient and I will answer your questions… 🤪
Young
Scott
Rankin
Appleton
Smith
Rickard (Richard)
Brannigan

Offline lyrosesss

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 28 April 22 22:33 BST (UK) »
Heywood.

Even though I had viewed the 1841 census many, MANY times, I had not noticed thar Patrick was not there.  🤪. Hmm!  Peter declared on Scottish 1841 census that he was a plasterer.  On the US 1860 census, both Peter and Patrick were recorded to be plasterers.  This is not a common occupation.  Consequently, I assumed that they were of the same family.  The very fact that you have found Catherine Brannigan, born in Ireland 1835 certainly is of interest.  Note Patrick and Catherine’s year of birth found on the Family Search-1835.  They may have been twins.  Perhaps Mary had a difficult birth.  Could Peter’s or Mary’s parents have raised the children for a while?  Also note, no record of either parents on Family Search.  I will have to mull over this information.  Thank you for your input.  Much appreciated!  👍😀

Young
Scott
Rankin
Appleton
Smith
Rickard (Richard)
Brannigan

Offline shanreagh

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #24 on: Friday 29 April 22 09:28 BST (UK) »
Have you found anything about Peter Brannigan?
Or looked for any others around the same place?

I think some trees show him married to Mary Malone but I think I saw a marriage of PB to Mary Smith around the same time in Glasgow.

**added - sorry that marriage was in Paisley


Do we definitely know surname of Peter's wife?
There was a  Peter Branigan marriage 7th May 1835 in Newry, bride Mary, can't read her surname.
Newry R.C. parish, Diocese of Dromore, Counties Down & Armagh.
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0455
Newry is near the county boundary with Louth.
A few parishes in Counties Monaghan and Louth have registers going back to 18th century but most don't begin until mid 19th century. Some marriage registers begin 1820s or 1830s, earlier than baptism registers.
I thought there may be a chance of finding Peter's marriage or baptism of his child, to get a location for him.   

The name looks like Mary Andrew*.  Cathne Brannigan seems to be mentioned and a Rev B Dooge (?). There seems to be a 'Bridg' or 'Bride' there as well.  (St Brigid?)

ETA Austin/Andin?

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #25 on: Friday 29 April 22 17:01 BST (UK) »
Do you think that the 1855 family i posted earlier is the right one Maiden Stone.


I think there are enough similarities between family on 1855 census and 1860 census. Patrick had aged only 3 years instead of 5 but that's not unusual. 1860 is correct family according to reply 10  by lyrerosesss.
Census date was June both years.
Thomas Brannagan had been resident in the district 18 years, since his teens, longer than Peter. Was he a relative? He would have been born early 1820s if his age was correct. Might there be information about his parents on his marriage registration? Or about his birthplace on his death registration?
John Brannigan, policeman, born 1827, Scotland. Hopefully another relative of Peter.
If Thomas and John were both Peter's brothers and if their ages were correct, the family may have moved from Ireland to Scotland early-mid 1820s when Ellen was a child, hence her thinking she had been born in Scotland. It's possible the family moved back & forth between the 2 countries. Farm labourers and weavers from Ulster moved into SW Scotland from 1790s on (perhaps earlier). Catholic chapels and the Orange Order both existed in SW Scotland 200 years ago.   
Cowban

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ellen Helen Brannigan, born 1817 Ireland, possibly County Monaghan
« Reply #26 on: Friday 29 April 22 17:22 BST (UK) »

However, the son Patrick b 1836 Scotland does not appear in 1841 and the children from 1841 are not on the census. The trees I have seen, seem to just have details re Patrick.


A difference between those U.S. censuses and UK censuses is that everyone whose normal abode it was should have been listed on U.S. census whereas UK censuses listed people who were present in a dwelling on census day/night.
Surviving children on the 1841 census may have left the parental home by 1855. Unmarried daughters gone into domestic service?
Might John on 1841 Scotland census be John the policeman, aged 33 on 1860 U.S. census? 
Cowban