John Murray

[MonicaL]

...He was there in 1921, 1924 and 1925, but not in 1930.  Could he possibly be the John Murray we are looking for?

The release of the Scottish 1921 census later this year (via www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk ) could help you in this area likely.

Monica

[muriellecampbell]

Hi Murielle

I understood there were no family witness as you mentioned they had eloped. My question was what details Robert gave to the Registrar about his father, if any. With illegitimate births, sometimes this box is left blank on the certificate.

Monica

I wish that I had an answer but I do not.  Prior to Robert's death, he did go to Scotland but he preferred that his biological father's name was not included in the birth certificate.  It was dated 16th of April 1953.  It reads "It is hereby certified that the above particulars are extracted from Entry No. 54 (4 is not very clear) in the Register Book of Births for the District of Stirling in the County of Stirling for the year 1922. (His birth was on 24 December 1921). 

Given at the General Registry Office, New Register House, Edinburgh, under the Seal of the said Office, this 16th day of April 1953.

[muriellecampbell]

Do you have your father in law's 1944 marriage reg to Catherine in England? If yes, what did he say about his father on this?

With the relative you have made contact with connected to brother John, have they John's 1925 birth cert to see what it shows?

Monica

Extract of an entry in a Register of Births for John Murray b)17 July 1925 at 66 Cowane Street, Stirling  Entry #316.  Column 5:  (Signed) Annie M. Campbell, Mother, (Signed) John Murray, Father.  Column 6:  1925 August 1st at Stirling (Signed) Robertha Cumming Asst. Registrar

The Certified Copy of their Entry of Marriage on 12 August 1944;  Registration District FYLDE in the County of Lancaster.   Column 2:  John Murray Seaman (Merchant Service) , Annie Melville Campbell Housekeeper.  Column 7 (Father's Name and Surname) was blank.  Column 8  (Rank or Profession of Father) was also blank.  Signed by Registrar of Marriages Robert J. Waring.

[MonicaL]

Thanks for the additional details, Murielle.

Monica

[MonicaL]

A relative of my husband's Wilson connection gave me a name to check out.  There was a John Murray living at 46 Cowane Street, a tenant listed as a Labourer.  This would be a short distance from 66 Cowane Street which was a boarding house at that time.  He was there in 1921, 1924 and 1925, but not in 1930.  Could he possibly be the John Murray we are looking for?  Thank you anyone for the help.

This John was still there in 1930. Indeed, he died at that address in 1934 at the age of 72. His occupation is showing as Burgh Labourer, married to a Mary Stack (1897 Stirling).

No children showing with them in 1901 as I think this may be their entry:

John Murray 38 Head carter b. Stirling
Mary Murray 36 Wife b. Stirling
John Coyne 24 Boarder b. Ireland

Address:118 Baker St, Stirling

Monica

[Rosinish]

Can someone on Rootschat for Scotland confirm if indeed John Murray is the biological father of my father-in-law Robert Murray Campbell.   

It's highly unlikely unfortunately, anyone could confirm the above unless via DNA matches with your husband.

Has your husband done a DNA test & have the relations of John Murray Jnr. done DNA?
The results of matching will help to determine whether John Murray Snr. was the father of Robert Murray Campbell.

The Certified Copy of their Entry of Marriage on 12 August 1944;  Registration District FYLDE in the County of Lancaster.   Column 2:  John Murray Seaman (Merchant Service) , Annie Melville Campbell Housekeeper.  Column 7 (Father's Name and Surname) was blank.  Column 8  (Rank or Profession of Father) was also blank.  Signed by Registrar of Marriages Robert J. Waring.

There appears to be too much speculation on who the parents of John Murray Snr. were, considering he left the columns blank regarding his father.
Might this indicate he was also illegitimate?

Annie

[Rosinish]

Related posts from 2017

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=778227.0

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=768009.0

Did you follow up the above in those 5 yrs & what was the outcome?

Annie

[Rosinish]

Prior to Robert's death, he did go to Scotland but he preferred that his biological father's name was not included in the birth certificate.  It was dated 16th of April 1953.

Given at the General Registry Office, New Register House, Edinburgh, under the Seal of the said Office, this 16th day of April 1953.

Apologies but I'm unsure what you mean by...

"he preferred that his biological father's name was not included in the birth certificate"

He wouldn't have had a choice as his fathers' name would only have been on the cert. if either he'd been there at the initial registration or an amendment was made later?

If a later amendment was made & his fathers' name was added, he wouldn't have had a choice in it then being removed from the copy he'd purchased.

Can you explain what you meant please as I'm confused?

Annie

[Rosinish]

From one of your previous threads over 5 yrs ago, did you follow it up, what was the outcome?

Death Record

MURRAY JOHN 29
1925
041/MR 33
MARINE RETURN

Annie