Isable Kirk.

[ruthhelen]

This looks like it could be Robert in the 1851 census:

https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a155231f4040b9d6e6531b6/robert-sparks-1851-renfrewshire-greenock-1797-?locale=en

This Robert Sparks married Jean Forsyth in Greenock in 1818 - they had six children baptised in Greenock between 1819 and 1838. He died in Greenock in 1866 - mms Burrell. However, I do wonder whether he is, in fact, the Robert Sparks you're looking for.

David Sparks married Elizabeth Birrell in Cupar in 1792 - then the following baptisms appear, all in Cupar:

• Margaret Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isabel Birrel) 20 Oct 1793
• Robert Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isable Kirk) 7 Jun 1795
• Mary Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isabel Burrell) 5 Mar 1797
• James Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isabella Birrel) 24 Feb 1799

I have seen Elizabeth and Isabel used interchangeably, so I'm pretty comfortable with Elizabeth Birrell being the same person as Isabel Birrel/Burrell. It's also possible that Isabel Birrel is, in fact, the same person as Isable Kirk, and that the registrar made an error in the surname - the birth dates are consistent with this being the same couple... No sign of any other baptisms for David Sparks and Isabel Kirk, and no marriage record. And sadly no Kirk session records for Cupar for this time period to see if this was an illegitimate birth - the baptism record makes no distinction one way or the other...

A bit speculative, I know, but I'm not fond of coincidences, and this seems a bit of a coincidence to me...

Ruth

[Forfarian]

That looks like an excellent piece of speculation, ruthhelen. Well done.

[Rosinish]

That looks like an excellent piece of speculation, ruthhelen. Well done.

I'll 2nd that...great observation!

Annie

[up2you2]

Are you descended from one of these Sparkes, and if not, from whom are you descended?

It is impossible to find a connection between them and someone else without any idea who the someone else might be. Bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, really

Q: Are you descended from one of these Sparkes, and if not, from whom are you descended?
A:I am not descended from any of these Sparks, however I am descend from James Kirk Abt. 1725- and Elizabeth Brown ( Broun) Abt. 1730-.

Q: It is impossible to find a connection between them and someone else without any idea who the someone else might be. Bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, really
A: Sure I would accept not easy, but in finding a record of their deaths, just might in itself provide some glues to work on.

[up2you2]

This looks like it could be Robert in the 1851 census:

https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a155231f4040b9d6e6531b6/robert-sparks-1851-renfrewshire-greenock-1797-?locale=en

This Robert Sparks married Jean Forsyth in Greenock in 1818 - they had six children baptised in Greenock between 1819 and 1838. He died in Greenock in 1866 - mms Burrell. However, I do wonder whether he is, in fact, the Robert Sparks you're looking for.

David Sparks married Elizabeth Birrell in Cupar in 1792 - then the following baptisms appear, all in Cupar:

• Margaret Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isabel Birrel) 20 Oct 1793
• Robert Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isable Kirk) 7 Jun 1795
• Mary Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isabel Burrell) 5 Mar 1797
• James Sparks (parents David Sparks and Isabella Birrel) 24 Feb 1799

I have seen Elizabeth and Isabel used interchangeably, so I'm pretty comfortable with Elizabeth Birrell being the same person as Isabel Birrel/Burrell. It's also possible that Isabel Birrel is, in fact, the same person as Isable Kirk, and that the registrar made an error in the surname - the birth dates are consistent with this being the same couple... No sign of any other baptisms for David Sparks and Isabel Kirk, and no marriage record. And sadly no Kirk session records for Cupar for this time period to see if this was an illegitimate birth - the baptism record makes no distinction one way or the other...

A bit speculative, I know, but I'm not fond of coincidences, and this seems a bit of a coincidence to me...

Ruth

This is great stuff, and perhaps as good as it will get under the circumstances.
When the odds are against you, still believe that The Force is with you.

Q: David Sparks married Elizabeth Birrell in Cupar in 1792 - then the following baptisms appear, all in Cupar.
A: Elizabeth (Isable) must be all in the pronunciation, maiden name Birrell, potentially married/widowed/divorced a Kirk previously.
Goes on to marry David Sparks in 1972, which ties in with Robert's birth.
Alternatively the registrar was having an off day, as he not only got her Christian name wrong, but excelled himself with the incorrect surname as well.
Obviously there is a bit of a story here.

The good news is that you might be potentially confirming, that there are now an additional three new Sparkes in the frame, four including Robert.
The descendents of those, if found, and if they to were prepared to have their DNA tested, could in theory confirm a much stronger match, in the event we are barking up the right tree.

Ruthhelen I lift my hat off to you here, you have reached the parts that other beers can't.
Can't thank you enough. 

[Rosinish]

With the surname of Isabel/Elizabeth having an entry as Kirk, it may be she was illegitimate, registered as either Birrell/Burrell or Kirk, one of those possibly being her reputed fathers' surname which gives 2 options.

I too have seen Isabella/Elizabeth being interchanged although they're both names in their own right.

It would be interesting to see what names precede the 'Kirk' entry to try & work out a/the possible error.

Often when baptisms took place at home, notes were written but often not logged 'officially' until a much later date & all sorts of errors were recorded (probably in a rush to get the job done) & putting obstacles in the way of our research 

Annie

[Forfarian]

Q: Are you descended from one of these Sparkes, and if not, from whom are you descended?
A:I am not descended from any of these Sparks, however I am descend from James Kirk Abt. 1725- and Elizabeth Brown ( Broun) Abt. 1730-.

So what is the paper trail leading back to this couple?

Q: It is impossible to find a connection between them and someone else without any idea who the someone else might be. Bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, really
A: Sure I would accept not easy, but in finding a record of their deaths, just might in itself provide some glues to work on.

There may not be any records of their deaths, and if so, unless they died after 1855, any death record will not confirm the names of their parents unless they are commemorated on the same gravestone.

[up2you2]

Q: Are you descended from one of these Sparkes, and if not, from whom are you descended?
A:I am not descended from any of these Sparks, however I am descend from James Kirk Abt. 1725- and Elizabeth Brown ( Broun) Abt. 1730-.

So what is the paper trail leading back to this couple?

Q: It is impossible to find a connection between them and someone else without any idea who the someone else might be. Bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, really
A: Sure I would accept not easy, but in finding a record of their deaths, just might in itself provide some glues to work on.

There may not be any records of their deaths, and if so, unless they died after 1855, any death record will not confirm the names of their parents unless they are commemorated on the same gravestone.

Q: So what is the paper trail leading back to this couple?
A: That's the problem, there is no paper trail to establish that we are related.
However 23&Me are saying otherwise, through a DNA match I am supposedly related to the present generation of Sparks, as a fourth cousin.
They and I have been trying to prove it, to date unsuccessfully.

Q: There may not be any records of their deaths, and if so, unless they died after 1855, any death record will not confirm the names of their parents unless they are commemorated on the same gravestone.
A: You could well be right, but these children in 1855 would have been from 56 to 62 in age, the odds here are telling me I might be lucky.

[Forfarian]

Q: So what is the paper trail leading back to this couple?
A: That's the problem, there is no paper trail to establish that we are related.

I'm sorry, but I remain confused.

If you have not done any paper research into you own direct ancestors, how do you know that you are descended from James Kirk and Elizabeth Brown? DNA alone is not sufficient to prove descendancy.

You have come across an Isabel Kirk (who may not in fact be Isabel Kirk if ruthhelen is correct, as she usually is), and want to find out if she is connected to you? Why this particular Isabel Kirk (if she was actually Isabel Kirk) and not one of the 15 whose baptisms between 1740 and 1780 are on record?

James Kirk and Elizabeth Brown/Broun had five recorded children, all baptised in the parish of Durisdeer, Dumfries-shire, between 1759 and 1771. They did not include an Isabel(la). 

David Sparks and Isable Kirk had a son Robert baptised in the parish of Cupar, Fife in 1795. Isable Kirk may be (probably is) the Elizabeth Birrell who was the wife of David Sparks and mother of three other children baptised in Cupar on dates that would fit them being siblings of Robert.

Durisdeer and Cupar are over 100 miles apart, which is quite a long way by 19th century standards when land travel was only by muscle power.

Why do you think that the wife of David Sparks (who may not even be a Kirk at all) has anything to do with James Kirk and Elizabeth Brown?