catherine mc bryde

[rosie17]

Will be interesting to see what it says on the birth certificate for Edward Toly if a date of marriage for Elizabeth has been recorded ..Or if she is single or widowed I don't see a death for a Charles Devine/Divine from 1852_1861

Rosie

[orkrad]

  Rosie ,The statutory record  shows  Edward (one of the sons ) as illegitimate . In the marriage column there is only his mother's name .  The address is the family home and the location of the 1841,51,61, 71 censuses.  When recording the birth the mother Elizabeth TOLY/TOLLAN has only made her mark. This record confirms all the information we have from the baptism record.  I think it also indicates she was not able to write in English.  I have tried over a period of several years without success  to find the death of Charles DIVINE. There are a few deaths of a person of this name in the Greenock area but the ages and occupations simply dont match.  Thanks for your  continued interest. Its wonderful to have so much help.  R egards Orkrad

[rosie17]

I somehow think Elizabeth Tollan/Toly was not married  ???lots of people could not read or write and made their mark with a cross ..I have not been lucky finding baptisms or a marriage for the family in Ireland

Rosie

[Rosinish]

Do you know where in Ireland your Tollan/Toly etc. family originated?

I have Tol(l)an(d) in my tree, originally from Donegal & Tyrone & wondered if there could be a connection.

Have you done a DNA test?

Annie

[orkrad]

 Hi Rosinish Yes I have done a DNA test but I have not made it public. My results came out as 93% I
 Irish origins. I am almost certain my TOLAN/TOOLIN/ TOLAND  ancestors came from Donegal but I have no proof. There are no living relatives to check with and there is no information of their origins  in the catholic parish where they worshipped since 1845.  Any suggestions as to how to procede further on that search would be welcome. Regards   Orkrad

[Rosinish]

Any suggestions as to how to procede further on that search would be welcome. Regards   Orkrad

Oh dear...I'm unsure but I'll send you a PM! 

Annie

[orkrad]

 Hi again Rosie You may well be right that Elizabeth TOLLAN was not married to Charles DIVINE. The baptism record   for her daughter Catherine on 10 Nov 1853  states that her parents are Charles DIVINE and Eliza TOLAN but that does not automatically assume they are married. I also have a death certificate for Elizabeth's first son. He was named Anthony DIVINE and died aged 2 months of inflammmatory bowel disease  on 29 August 1857. The record states his father as Charles DIVINE (Riveter Iron ship Building ) and his mother as Elizabeth DIVINE (ms PTOLEMY ! ) . The child died in the family home at 40 Church Street PORT-GLASGOW where a very extended family lived.  Again the mother has signed with her mark.   I think on the balance of probabilities that Elizabeth TOLAN and Elizabeth TORRENCE  ( of the marriage proclamation ) and ELizabeth PTOLEMY  ( on the death cert for the baby ) are the same woman.  But as  is so often the case there is no documentary proof.  Thanks again for all your input. Regards Orkrad.

[Rosinish]

The baptism record   for her daughter Catherine on 10 Nov 1853  states that her parents are Charles DIVINE and Eliza TOLAN but that does not automatically assume they are married.

Have you looked at the other baptisms on the page to see how parents' names were recorded as there should be clues there?

Annie

[Rosinish]

I think on the balance of probabilities that Elizabeth TOLAN and Elizabeth TORRENCE  ( of the marriage proclamation ) and ELizabeth PTOLEMY  ( on the death cert for the baby ) are the same woman.  But as  is so often the case there is no documentary proof.

I'm sure many of us have had the same problems with surnames recorded in various ways other than we'd expect(ed) & very often circumstantial evidence is what clinches it.

Annie