CAMERON John Birth 1865 Edinburgh

[Rosinish]

The Udston Rows reference is directly reported from the 1911 census.

The place of birth on Joseph's birth certificate states "High Dykehead, Hamilton..."

I presume that the Udston Rows reference is the house in which he was born, which was not included on his birth certificate.

"Udston Rows, Dykehead, Hamilton
This property is situated at Dykehead, in the Parish of Hamilton, and is known as Udston Rows"...

http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/99.html

Annie

[Zacktyr]

Hi Loopy

Yes, I had entertained the idea that John Cameron was not born in Scotland.  Accordingly, I examined the GRO.gov.uk birth index in depth with all variations of mother's surname.  There are no births to a mother Graham or Green.  The births in Dec Qtr 1864 and Jan Qtr 1865 have mothers' surnames included, so no joy in England. 

I also did do a search of the Irish civil registration births and again no joy there. 

I have also searched for the marriage of the suspected parents in England and in Ireland.  No luck on these.  Unfortunately, there's not much point in searching for death certificates in England or Ireland as neither provide sufficient identifying information when the place of residence is unknown.

As to the marriage certificate for John Cameron and Catherine Campbell, the details are:

1889. Marriages in the District of Bothwell, in the County of Lanark.
p. 47, Entry #94
1889 on the twenty-seventh day of October at The Episcopal Church Uddingston after Publication According to the Forms of the Episcopal Church in Scotland
Groom:  (Signed) John Cameron, Coal Miner (Bachelor), 35 years old, residing at 57 Single Row, Aitkenhead, parents Joseph Cameron General Labourer (Deceased), Sarah Cameron M.S. Graham (Deceased)
Bride:  (Signed) Catherine Campbell, Domestic Servant (Spinster), 27 years old, residing at 24 Double Row Aitkenhead, parents David Campbell, Coal Miner, Mary Campbell M.S. Ford
Witnesses:  (Signed) Henry Bruce, Rector of St. Andrews Uddingston; (signed) David Campbell witness; Maggie Swinburn witness.
Registered:  1899 October 28th at Bothwell. William McNab, Registrar.

David Campbell was either Catherine's father or her brother.  I have no idea who Maggie Swinburn was.  She did not marry any of Catherine Campbell's brothers.

I hope this information helps.

[Zacktyr]

Hi, Annie

Thank you for the confirmation of the relationship of Udston Rows to Dykehead.  It is as I suspected and it's good to know this information as a certainty, now.  I appreciate your input.

[Rosinish]

the relationship of Udston Rows to Dykehead. it's good to know this information as a certainty, now. 

I know the frustration of the uncertainty as many BCs omit specific info. on addresses.

I have quite a few BCs which only name the area, no croft no. to match which would have been more helpful where illegitimate births were concerned, among people with same surnames.
I've had to compare & rely on signatures for some.

Annie

[loobylooayr]

Hi Zacktyr,

Taking the family back ten years from their appearance on the 1911 Census is proving to be difficult.

You have possibly discovered this yourself, but there are only 2 infant (between 0-1)  Joseph Camerons recorded in the whole of Scotland .
Joseph C Cameron - 0 - Hutchesontown, Lanarkshire ref -644/11 58/ 21
Joseph Cameron - 0 - Paisley Renfrewshire - ref. 573/1 64/ 19
Although the middle initial C looked promising ( thought they may have added a Campbell to his name - although not on the birth certificate it wasn't unusual to gain a middle name later)  - through looking at other Camerons with the same ref. number on the Census, this child is not with adults called John and Catherine. Ditto the Paisley baby. I've not looked at the Census to verify - the baby could be staying with Cameron relatives? But most likely these babies are with their parents and siblings.

There is one child on the 1901 Census called Joseph age 0 who has be recorded with no surname.
Interestingly, this child is at Blantyre, Lanarkshire - not a million miles away from Uddingston, Bothwell and Hamilton. ref.  624/ 3/1 7
It would maybe be worth contacting Scotlands People and asking them if they could shed some light on this child's surname or the surname of the people he is recorded with.

It would be good if John Cameron could be located on the 1901 to see where he has given as his place of birth. Sometimes, people could be a wee bit flexible with the truth when it came to ages, parents marital status and places of birth etc.  I have wondered if John was Irish - he wouldn't be the first to give himself a Scottish birthplace on a Census.

Out of interest, this link shows a map of 1898 shows Aitkenhead and its miners rows  - the addresses for both John and Catherine  when they marry   https://maps.nls.uk/view/82892388

The full details of their marriage are helpful, thank you. A shame the witnesses are not a lead to John's family.

Looby

[Zacktyr]

the relationship of Udston Rows to Dykehead. it's good to know this information as a certainty, now. 

I know the frustration of the uncertainty as many BCs omit specific info. on addresses.

I have quite a few BCs which only name the area, no croft no. to match which would have been more helpful where illegitimate births were concerned, among people with same surnames.
I've had to compare & rely on signatures for some.

Annie

Hi Annie,

Yes, it is frustrating not having an exact address entered on BCs.  I, too, have had to rely on signatures on documents to make a determination about a particular individual.  This happens almost routinely with my English ancestors where a signature on a marriage I have to match against a signature on a Will. 

[Zacktyr]

Hi, Looby,

Thank you, again, for your thoughts on the 1901 census situation regarding the infants named Joseph Cameron.  I had purchased all four census where there was a child named Joseph aged between 0 and 2 years old.  I even purchased the preceding page as the two infants were shown on the top of a page and the parents weren't included.  None of the four were the correct Joseph Cameron.

I did not, however, realize that I could search without a surname.  Thank you for that tip.  I searched for and found the [no surname] Joseph.  I then searched for all others without a surname in that exact location and found a Catherine who was the right age to have been Joseph's mother.  I got really excited!  I purchased that page.  There were only 3 people in the family Frances [sic] the head of the family and a coal miner, Catherine the wife, and Joseph the child.  The surname was very poorly written but I was able to glean "Heniry".  He was born in England and Catherine was born somewhere in Lanarkshire called Caylesham, or something similar - again very poorly written.

So, I thought maybe I could find a marriage for Frances [sic] and Catherine.  I did and I purchased the certificate.  She was Catherine Smith and he was listed as Francis Henery.  They married on 13 July 1900, nine months after my John Cameron married Catherine Campbell.  That officially ruled out any possibilities that Francis was John.  For interest's sake, Francis' father's name was Joseph!  But his mother's name was also Catherine nee Scollens.  The marriage took place at St. Joseph's RC Church at Blantyre.  Oh so many similarities.

I just don't understand why John, Catherine and Joseph cannot be found on the 1901 census.  Are you aware of any portions of that census that have been lost, damaged, or destroyed?

I've tried a few more different search strategies and started to build a spreadsheet of the results.  Once all the data is entered I'll be able to sort on specific points.  I've started a similar spreadsheet for marriages 1855-1872 for the potential parents Joseph Cameron and Sarah Graham/Green using all the name variables I can think of.

Thank you for the map link.  That is very helpful as it clearly shows the residences directly outside of the two collieries in the area.

Yes, I was very disappointed in the witnesses to the marriage of John Cameron and Catherine Campbell.  The one avenue that could potentially open doors to the earlier Cameron generations...

Do you think it would be worthwhile for me to contact Scotlands People and ask why no birth certificate matching the RC baptism?

I was called mid-week last week to take on a contract administration position.  So, I'm not online now until the evenings and weekends.

Susan