Scottish element to Irish ancestry?

[josey]

Please excuse a possibly naive question. My ancestry ethnicity estimate is 59% Ireland 28% England & Northwestern Europe [Devon & Cornwall] 13% Scotland. From my father 46% Ireland 4% Scotland; from my mother 13% Ireland 28% England and Northwestern Europe 9% Scotland.

I do realise that these ethnicity estimates are not set in stone and rely on the make-up of the database.

However I am intrigued by the percentage of Scotland. According to the paper trail, my father was of generations of Irish [apart from a Yorkshire great great grandfather] and my mother from generations of Cornish [apart from 3 Irish great grandparents and 1 Yorkshire great grandmother].

My question is - could the Scottish element come from the Irish ancestors being part of the Ulster plantation? Or is that so long ago that it would not register on DNA? My family name is one that is usually assumed to be Scottish.

Thanks for any thoughts, Josey

[TonyV]

Hi Josey

I suspect that the answer is that your Scottish ancestry does indeed result in part from the Plantations. Ancestry describe my ethnicity as 44% Irish, primarily from Mayo and the rest of me is from the English Midlands; 12% from Scotland and a bit from Europe.

My Midlands stuff is from my maternal line and she certainly had no known Scottish ancestry, but likewise there is no evidence of European ancestors in the last few hundred years. I think that this is pretty ancient stuff then and therefore evidence that DNA from the time of the various Plantations can be included in Irish DNA via inter-marriages. The Irish part of me is partly directly from Ireland and partly from the Irish settlers in eastern USA from the 19th century. There is no other way that I can have Scottish DNA from my paternal line than through the Irish blood lines.

I believe that Ancestry is reputed to have the most accurate reference panels but even so, the Northern Europe one is pretty widely spread and generalised.

I am not a DNA expert but hopefully the above is a reasonable assumption even so.

Tony

[josey]

Thank you Tony; your own figures make it seem very likely then that DNA from Scottish ancestors still compares on the ancestry database as Scottish even when filtered through Ireland. Fascinating. It does explain my family name though!

[Ruskie]

There might have been more updates since this was written but I recall several threads about this:
https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/blog/why-your-latest-results-could-include-more-scotland-in-your-ethnicity-estimates

[greenrig]

The Scots were great travellers - and got everywhere in the Old Empire. Also, Scotland to Ireland is only about 15 miles at the closest sea crossing (and you can see one from the other on a clear day) - so people have been moving in both directions for thousands of years.  The Plantation is one of the many possible vehicles for such intermixing. Other reasons include economic, military, religious, cultural and family ties.

[TonyV]

Thanks for that link Ruskie. It seems that Ancestry expected to see these Scottish connections for a lot of people with no obvious recent history of Scottish ancestry. I’m still not sure whether to order a kilt or which clan, to get the colours correct (only joking….can’t stand hairy socks!).

Tony

[GR2]

….can’t stand hairy socks!.

It's our knees that are hairy, not our socks 

[josey]

Thanks for the link Ruskie, it helps clarify the science.

[Carmella]

Hi Josey,

On LivingDNA ethnicity estimates Northern Ireland and some parts of Southern Scotland are classed as the same genetic group. So as an example my results are:

10.2% Ireland
3.6%  Northern Ireland & Southwest Scotland

When I click on LivingDNA's description of NI & SW Scotland it says, amongst other things:

"The genetic signature has a quality that is unusual in the British Isles - it is likely to be largely influenced by a relatively recent event in the 1600s. This event is known as  the Ulster Plantation, which saw thousands of Scottish people being placed into Northern Ireland by King James. Not only did this influence language and religion to this day, but the DNA of the Scottish and Irish was intermixed. Natural movements of people across the sea is also notable, both before and after the Plantation of Ulster."

(Hope this is ok to quote from their information article)